LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently December 13, 2018, 7:17 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: October 24, 2018, 2:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 6, 2009, 11:03 am
Posts: 81
Location: Toronto, Canada
I'm building a middy using 2004 R1 engine but I'm not sure what to do about the clutch switch.
I've heard that leaving it open circuit works but I also heard that this messes up the mapping.

So:
open?
Closed? or
Figure out some way to mount a switch on my clutch pedal?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: October 24, 2018, 3:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
Posts: 2727
Location: Summerville, SC
I'm not sure about '04, but I had to wire it closed on my project to get the starter to engage if I recall correctly. I also had to defeat the kick stand switch.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: October 24, 2018, 3:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 645
Location: Pemberton, BC
Hey Thumper,
I just had a look at the wiring diagram (just happen to have it close by), and the clutch switch needs to be closed for starting. Mine is an '05, which is the same as an '04, and I just soldered the wires. No issues.
The other two switches, neutral and side stand need to be open for starting; they go to ground when closed.
This winter, I will look into disabling the neutral switch as well. It has happened to me a couple of times where I stalled in gear, and couldn't shift back to neutral without rocking the car. No big deal when on a bike, but lot's of unstrapping and clambering out. I am comfortable to eliminate all the interlock switches, as I won't start without automatically depressing the clutch. Old habits. :D
# 59 is the clutch switch
PS. also make sure you keep the tip-over switch and mount it correctly, otherwise the engine won't run. It will crank, but not fire.


Attachments:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 65.44 KiB | Viewed 908 times ]

_________________
Martin


My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
My build video:
https://vimeo.com/143524140 password "matovid"
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: October 25, 2018, 10:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 6, 2009, 11:03 am
Posts: 81
Location: Toronto, Canada
mgkluft wrote:
Hey Thumper,
I just had a look at the wiring diagram (just happen to have it close by), and the clutch switch needs to be closed for starting. Mine is an '05, which is the same as an '04, and I just soldered the wires. No issues.
The other two switches, neutral and side stand need to be open for starting; they go to ground when closed.
This winter, I will look into disabling the neutral switch as well. It has happened to me a couple of times where I stalled in gear, and couldn't shift back to neutral without rocking the car. No big deal when on a bike, but lot's of unstrapping and clambering out. I am comfortable to eliminate all the interlock switches, as I won't start without automatically depressing the clutch. Old habits. :D
# 59 is the clutch switch
PS. also make sure you keep the tip-over switch and mount it correctly, otherwise the engine won't run. It will crank, but not fire.


That doesn't seem to agree with the write up on page 8-15 of the Service Manual:

STARTING CIRCUIT CUT-OFF SYSTEM
OPERATION
If the engine stop switch is set to β€œ ” and the
main switch is set to β€œON” (both switches are
closed), the starter motor can only operate if at
least one of the following conditions is met:
 The transmission is in neutral (the neutral
switch is closed).
 The clutch lever is pulled to the handlebar (the
clutch switch is closed) and the sidestand is up
(the sidestand switch is closed).
The starting circuit cut-off relay prevents the
starter motor from operating when neither of
these conditions has been met. In this instance,
the starting circuit cut-off relay is open so current
cannot reach the starter motor. When at
least one of the above conditions has been met
the starting circuit cut-off relay is closed and the
engine can be started by pressing the starter
switch.


This implies that the clutch switch is NO and closes when clutch is depressed and that the sidestand switch is NO when down and closed when retracted.

So it seems that if I want to start the engine when NOT in neutral, I need sidestand switch AND clutch switches both closed.

So the question comes that if I wire the clutch switch closed all the time while I'm driving, will the ECM think I have the clutch in and do funny things like use a different fuel mapping, rev limit, etc?

Another question about the tip-over switch: Other than keeping the UP side up, do I need to worry about fore/aft orientation?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: October 25, 2018, 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 645
Location: Pemberton, BC
Hi Thumper,
maybe I've got it backwards, and left the clutch switch open. That's why it probably only starts in neutral. I have to physically look at my wiring to confirm; it has been a while that I did it. I'll check it out tonight.
Here is another pic of the wiring diagram; 11 and 12 are the neutral an kickstand switches.
It makes sense for the clutch switch to override the neutral switch; that way the bike can be started in gear. Either way, I don't think that it will have an effect on the ECM; the clutch gets pulled all the time when riding, so it should not do anything to the mapping. As the description says, these switches only enable the starter relays.
As for the tip over switch, I mounted it exactly as it is on the bike.
One other little tidbit. When reversing, the engine shuts off. There must be a sensor in the transmission that kills the engine, once a certain reverse speed is attained. Pushing back is fine; any more than walking speed, it dies.


Attachments:
R1.JPG
R1.JPG [ 135.27 KiB | Viewed 855 times ]

_________________
Martin


My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
My build video:
https://vimeo.com/143524140 password "matovid"
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: October 25, 2018, 1:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
Posts: 2727
Location: Summerville, SC
I wired the clutch and side stand switch closed on the R1 project. It was carbed, so no impact on fuel mapping.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY