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Within the next many months I'll need to commit to an electric reverse (starter or winch motor at the diff pinion flange), or, spend the bucks and get a quaife reverse box. I'd honestly like not to spend the $1500 on the Quaife- but I will if I must.

As I've been researching the Quaife box, I came upon something I hadn't thought about or expected; some owners have found that it creates a noticable "lash" (if that's the right term) in the driveline.. Through this forum I have already learned that I'll be running a Guiabo (sp) to help ease some BEC driveline harshness- now I'm thinking that the Quaife might introduce an unwanted/unacceptable 'bucking' while at speed going forward?

This car (<1300#/ 105hp/ 55ft lbs) will be a daily driver that will likely need to be put into reverse 5 to 6 times a week (it's not simply there for passing tech at the track- just backing out of parking spaces and the like).

Anyway, this is not one of those "Tell me which is better" threads- but I would love to hear from someone that's running a functional, reliable electric reverse in a daily driver- or from one of you guys running the Quaife- any bucking/lash that bugs you?

I have to imagine the Quaife is fine at hard throttle (track), but when you back off a bit (freeway driving), does do unwanted things? One poster had said the lash drove him so batty he had to pull the box out and fab an electric reverse setup- in his case an expen$ive oops!

As always, thanks for your insight.

ccrunner

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Dean

1972 Honda N600 Restomod "ccrunner's N600 VFR800 repower"

1963 Volvo P1800 Restomod
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16309

1959 Berkeley SE492 Restomod...
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19397

"ccrunner's 1960 MGA coupe Restomod" found on MGExp.com

No experience with this, but it sounds believable.

I don't know of anyone running a Quaife reverse box, perhaps a lurker will step forward.

Good luck.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
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I too am basically in the same spot. Ordered my Kit from MK, should be on a ship from the UK in the next 2 -3 weeks (hopefully ).. I am going to use a Hayabusa. Based on the forum I am leaning towards an electric reverse. Guys like Hank and a few others have had the reverse box and removed it due to leaks, vibration and the above stated clunking between gears. And as you said the high cost.

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Ali ---

-- Push the pedal on the right, the one in the middle is for wussies ---
- Link to build blog- http://BluLi7ard.blogspot.com/

I'm in the process of designing a 12 volt winch using a socket to engage the counter shaft sprocket. The winch motor will slide in and out on linear bearings.
Calculated reverse speed will be approx .5 mph. Sounds slow, but it will climb a tree and will not suck power from your battery like a starter motor on a ring gear.
More to follow

olrowdy_01's got one in his Locouki. I don't think he checks here that often, but perhaps he'll chime in.

I too have heard not so great things about the Quaife. I've also heard not so great things about electric reverses, so take that for what it's worth.

I think I've personally decided to go with the MNR reverse box. They've been in the field for over a year now, and reports are that it works better than the Quaife. It's supposed to be smoother, and it doesn't spit up oil like the Quaife. I can't confirm any of these claims, but I think I'm going to take the plunge and order one from them pretty soon. It should be around $1000 shipped over here from GB.

might try the UK board, more BEC over there.

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JSullivan

I also didn't want to shell out $1500 for a Quaifie. Super Seven Cars Inc. ( The canadian dealer for Caterham ) use them in their Busa powered 7. They also have a chain drive assy. from the engine to the driveshaft which I would think would add to the backlash. They do use a rubber coupling between the output shaft to the chain drive assembly. Its all quite complicated and expensive. They have pics of this arrangement on their website. I chose the build it yourself route using a starter and ring gear from a 13 HP Honda industrial engine. I installed it Between my two driveshafts because I run a live axle . The unit has 2 bearings good for 7500 rpm to support the shafts. I used a Jeep Liberty drive shaft (CV) for the front because my engine is angled to get the output aimed to the tunnel. My engine is a Honda CBR 929. This unit gets me out of my garage or a parking spot but it won't handle much of an incline. I run a Harley motorcycle battery and it seems to handle the load OK. If you run IRS It would be a lot less complicated. I had more detailed pics that got lost in a bad hard drive.

As always, great info guys... I'm curious to see how Kiwi's winch setup works out.. I don't mind that it might be slow.. more important to me is that it's reliable and low maintanence (~once it's dialed in, not having to think much about it again). I'm leaning toward an electric setup, and will fab one up as best I can with affordable parts...

I know this "electric reverse" topic has been covered many times, but if anyone has suggestions on parts/ part numbers (motors/gears/small flywheels, etc), it would be helpful.. even better if you have pics (thanks Clayton)! I did a youtube search on this, and some guys have posted some really ingenious setups, but I can't tell where/what parts they sourced.. I was thinking a MC starter would be small/light.. but even with aggresive (slow) gearing it may not have enough torque to move a 1300# car?.. This brings me back to a small (ATV) winch motor? One last thought- I may be commited to the pinion flange (7.5 T-bird), which would only allow a 6-7" gear (I'm guessing; I have yet to get the center section)..

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Dean

1972 Honda N600 Restomod "ccrunner's N600 VFR800 repower"

1963 Volvo P1800 Restomod
http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16309

1959 Berkeley SE492 Restomod...
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19397

"ccrunner's 1960 MGA coupe Restomod" found on MGExp.com

If you have the details, would you mind sharing the ring gear and Honda motor details. Reason I am asking, I was thinking of doing something similar, but have no clue how to get a matching set. Meaning Gear and motor. Part # and maybe a source would be cool.

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Ali ---

-- Push the pedal on the right, the one in the middle is for wussies ---
- Link to build blog- http://BluLi7ard.blogspot.com/

Ali, The starter and ring gear are off a Honda GX 390 gas engine. the starter is a Denso BB586.The ring gear Just fits the tunnel. The amp draw getting the car moving is high but the battery handles it ok. It propels the car at a slow walking speed. I think all the electric starter reversers have marginal power but it gets me out of the garage. I didn't want to have a large battery. The ring gear is shrunk onto a steel disc against a flange and tig welded 4 places because its 1 inch away from my ankle. The assembly is mounted on rubber spitfire bushes. The bearing assembly is more complicated then I wanted because I needed to remove one propshaft flange to put the idler shaft into the bearings. I used parts from a front 4x4 hub from a chevy S10 so the axle spline was modified with a flange that adapted to the input driveshaft and the hub flange With different high speed bearings was was adapted to match the output propshaft. sorry no photo of the parts. I'm quite sure it could be simpler,I tend to complicate things. The rear adapter flange is 6061 t6 aluminum good for the 5000RPM max. I hope the post gives you some ideas.

I use a Quaife reverse in my BEC. At first I did have trouble with the wind-up/lash issue you are wondering about. Driveline lash is normal in lots of bike trannys as they use dog engement rather than cone type synchros, also the Quaife gearbox adds a bit of lash too. I had problems at first because I had no Cushdrive/Guibo to help cushion the windup during shifts. I subsequently installed a TRT propshaft from Bailey-Morris which makes it so much better. Another thing I found that helped was to reduce the idle speed, although this only helped the Nuetral to 1st gear shift, it made a big ddifference. As for around town driving, that is pretty much all I do with my car (not getting groceries or going to work but fun driving). After one gets used to the lack of flywheel effect and the immediacy of the shifts you will quickly be able to drive smoothly at any speed. The only time I have any issues with driveline windup now are when trying to creep in traffic, remedied by slowing and accelerating.
One other point I would make about clunking/windup problems is to ensure your engine is running properly, mine was running a bit lean at first and it seemed to amplify the problem.

Also about the Quaife units leaking oil out of the vent;
This is a common problem with Quaife boxes and they do sell and overflow kit, I purchased a $2 18mm bpt nipple, put a hose on it and ran it to an overflow mounted on the firewall and problem solved, as of 2yrs I havent had any issues with the Quaife unit.

First off, I have no experience with Quaife. I might suggest to future builders of BECs to consider the BMW K1200LT (or variants) motorcycle. The bike has a built-in starter based reverse gear. 760lb bike, 300lbs of peoples and 100lbs of kit makes for a real biotch to back up. I've only had to use mine in it's bike configuration a few times, but it worked great at walking speed.

BMW K1200LT engine specs:
1200cc Water cooled 4 stroke in line four cylinder engine. two camshafts, four valves per cylinder.
Longitudinally mounted
100HP at 6,750 rpm w/catalytic converter
84ft lb at 4,750 rpm
5 Speed overdrive w/reverse
Shaft Drive w/1:2.75 final drive
Dry hydraulic Clutch
850w 12v Alternator

Those are the spec for my bike a 2001. Seems BMW was trying a marketing gimmick by making their 2001 models meet 2006 emissions requirements. With tuning, I'm sure the engine would make at least 25 to 30HP more. Especially without the catalytic converter. Even still, I'm getting an honest 50mpg.

100hp was the European manufacturers agreed limit for motorcycles until recently.

Honda Goldwing - 1500 flat 6 and electric reverse, surprised not to see them used more often in BECs, too expensive maybe?

It ends up I'll be using my k1200lt engine in my seven. The bike wasn't nearly as valuable as I thought. After scanning eBay I might recoup all the value of the bike just selling off the unused parts. So I may end up with the only "brick" engined seven in the US or anywhere afaik. I'd like to eliminate the cat, add a header and a low restriction CAI, but I'd need to get tune. And as yet I havent found anybody that can tune this particular engine/ecu. IMO there's another 20HP in there, If I could just get at it. The up side is that I won't have any issues getting it all under the bonnet.

Hey Tyrod, I'm keeping an EYE on your build. I like the idea a lot with the beemer power. .. not that I'm wanting one, I saw an auction for one locally.
Whats that make, a 14" tall engine package including intake and exhaust?
There must be someone flashing the ECU, WinOls shows a replacement Eprom and interface board for the K1200rs.
http://www.evc.de/en/default.asp

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett