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So i been debating between running a bike engine vs a fwd car/tranny setup behind the seat similar to a Ar-i-el At-om setup but i am loving the idea of using an bike engine setup due to simplicity of the install and pure performance the bike engine with sequential gearbox brings to the table. i also like the fact that a bike engine setup would be half or less the weight of a car engine/tranny setup would be. I been trying to figure out a way of installing the bike engine behind the driver and connect the power to the ground. The idea i was thinking of was running is what i seen on a sand rail car i seen a few years ago that has some interesting setup..

The tranny output sprocket would run a chain/belt 30ish degrees upwards to a larger sprocket.
The sprocket had short tubes that bolted to the sprocket on both sides then where mounted with bearing on both sides.
The other side of the bearing had a mounting plate for the half shaft to connect to.
Then the half shafts angled slightly down connecting to the center of FWD hubs that powered the wheels.
*Something i remembered him reminding me.. was to mount the wheels slighty angled forward or back to the sprocket.. i remember him saying that when you hit bumps you cant have the wheels straight to the sprocket or it binds when the wheels want to travel up....



Tell me what you guys think about this idea... also the guy had a pretty nifty idea of reverse also.. he said he used a speedo cable and modified it .. then he used a tiny gear from a bike derailer with the speedo cable welded to the small bike gear.. then he used a bike brake setup modified so it was sprung away from touching the chain and when he squeezed the brake lever it pushed the gear against the chain.. then in the cabin he mounted the speedo cable so he just chucked it into a cordless drill.. So when he wanted to go in reverse he would pull the brake handle to engage the gear into the chain and press the button on the drill and it would go into reverse.. not very fast but enough to move the vehicle.. he told me he tried other ways but perm mounting an electric motor made them go out alot due to weather and mud.. with the use of the cordless drill he has a mechanical reverse more so with electric drill...

The other half of the build is i am debating making the frame a single person frame putting the driver in the middle or run a passenger seat.. I am leaning toward the single seat idea because i am replacing my joy for motorcycles with this build due to my family doesnt want me getting another motorcycle after being hit by a drunk driver who didnt see me at night on one and barely walking away.. If i go with single seat position the overall build will be less weight and i can use electric/air shifting for the bike engine tieing it into a nice push button steering wheel..

I am adding this to the main page because i think its important to know its available free through google.. not sure why its free but ill take it...
http://books.google.com/books?id=cym6_H ... al&f=false

this is a possible shifter i was reading into that i could run.. you can set it up to shift via a push button or it can be programmed to shift based off wheel speed from the stock ecm speed sensor. and it will auto downshift to keep the motor in the powerbands in each gear you program the settings to.. it is pretty amazing idea.. because when you want to just cruise around.. its an automatic transmission in theory once your already moving.. only thing it cant do is... is launch so you have to takeoff manually still..

I'm not sure that I understand your description. but it sounds like you will not have a differential. May be OK for sand. not good for street. Replace the sprocket with a real chain driven diff and you will have what everybody here is running. Also not sure what the binding problem is all about. It doesn't sound like it should be an issue at all. Maybe his implementation was poorly exectuted.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

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I highly recommend getting a ride in a BEC (Bike-Engine Car.) There are several aspects which can conspire to take all the fun out of it.

1a. No flywheel. At constant road speed, the engine/transmission/change get in an odd oscillation where it feels like the driver has a twich in his foot. Speed up or slow down a little and it goes away - annoying.

1b. No flywheel. Starting from a dead stop, it is very difficult to not stall the engine - annoying.

2. High cruising RPM. I got a ride in 'Busa-powered Seven. When on the freeway at about 65-70 mph, it was running at 6000 rpm. Very annoying.

3. No reverse. Sounds okay in theory, annoying in practice.

That said, nothing beats it for track use... but for the street it'll get tiring. Kinda like having to babysit your nephew who eats nothing but candy all day. The bouncing-off-the-wall antics, while amusing for a little while, quickly become an irritation.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

I have an R1 BEC with a little bit of local road time, mostly because I've been lazy about installing lights and parking brake to complete my registration.

Kurt has it mostly right, with the exception of 1b. My setup is a 2003 r1 motor/trans with Barnett clutch springs and the stock clutch and stock cable. I've never had any trouble with street starts. It does take a small amount of muscle memory at first to get a smooth start, but I had no more trouble than learning an unfamiliar standard manual car transmission. That being said, it's very fun on the track. For daily road use I would not recommend it.

Well to start things off, I have tried to contact many people on here to see if they were close enough to meet and one of them is indeed in my own state but he is a good 6 hours away from me. So i have no experience on a bike engine locost..

1a....I have owned many sport bikes over the years and also owned 1 cruiser bike which never lasted very long. I never noticed anytime that there was an issue like this unless this becomes apparent once the engine is put in a locost..

1b....I never got to drive a bike engine sand rail but after hanging out with my friend with his air cooled engine sand rail.. the guys with bike engines seemed to never have that much of a problem. I would imagine if you got stuck in traffic jam it would suck but im sure there is a way of getting around this.. I have a cousin who races midget type cars with yamaha 750cc engines and i spoke to him about it and he told me that you can adjust the idle so when you go to take off that the idle is high enough to overcome the want for the engine to stall.. never needing to give it gas on take off just using the clutch...

2.....did this have a aftermarket exhaust to cause it to be so annoying? all the years of owning a sport bike cruising on the highway never bothered me because with the full face helm on it was barely heard and was somewhat enjoying to hear.. not like i plan to travel hundreds of miles a day with this build...

3.....no reverse is a concern for me.. but i have seen a ton of options to add an simple reverse... the MEV TR1ke uses a off the shelf starter and a custom gear made so one half connects to the chain and the other half of the same gear is machined with teeth compatible with the starter.. so when the starter is engaged the starter gear extends out meshing it with the gear attached to the chain causing it to go in reverse.. when the starter isnt engaged the custom gear just free spins...

The point of me wanting to build a locost or similar project is the empty void i have from missing the ownership of a bike. I had one for nearly 10 years but a few years ago i was stopped at a red light and a drunk driver plowed right through me.. taking me and 2 other bikes out all at the same time.. car never hit there brakes or anything.... resulting in me having 2 knee surgerys and spinal surgery... since then i have always missed riding and even tried riding a friends sport bike but my back couldnt deal with being bent over in the aggressive seating position very long before i was in pain..also my family is worried about getting hit again on a sport bike..

I rented a harley last year to go to bike week up at myrtle beach and even though i had a really fun time going up there and riding again.. but the feel of the heavy bike and lack of being easily tossed around in the corners bored me..making me miss sport bikes even more..

I choose to put the engine behind me because i was given a chance to drive a locost with a miata engine setup last year at a near by race track and the fun i had that day was just amazing going around the track.. the only thing i disliked was the amazing amount of heat there was coming from the engine roasting my nuts.. i actually melted part of my shoe after a few laps because i was resting my foot wrong i was told.. but overall the heat coming off the engine roasting me was just way to uncomfortable.. thus my attempts to fit whichever engine i choose behind me..

I don't think you'll have much luck putting power thru a poly chain,the belt will ratchet even with it crazy tight.Not sure why the cv's would need to be angled forward/rearward other than LOTS of suspension travel on the sand rail using up all the plunge travel the cv's offered.With a road use build you'll never have that much travel to deal with.
Never driven a BEC on the road but I can see where Kurt comes from,I'm about to build my 3rd BEC track only car and have no desire to build a track car using a car engine and trans as they are just that good at doing what they do.With the tall 1st gear all big bore bike engines have you have to find the balance between being able to pull away without roasting the clutch every time and screaming along on the hwy.

i am still learning all about this stuff but i hope to start a build within the next month or so. I am searching for a engine now.. but if i choose to use the trike setup.. i may be looking for a wrecked r1 to use the rear half of the frame.. and just put a low profile semi slick on the rim..

I want this build to be streetable but also very fun to drive at the track.. I live in florida and there is tons of tracks to go to and most of them i see everything from kit cars to streetable production cars going around them to enjoy the day.. i am not looking to make something that meets code of a certain class or anything like that.. i want something so if i want to drive a nice curvy road or go around a autox track to enjoy the day i can.. but at the same time easily drivable on the street when weather is nice..

another thing i have look at is the option of upgrading to an 260mm, 360mm, 460mm aftermarket rim and build custom swing arm to fit the new wheel.. with a car tire fitted on the wheel..


or.. use something like this on an standard automotive rim.. the sprocket bolts on one side and the rim lug pattern allows the rim to bolt to the other side. \\

I love the look of that bike.

The lack of a flywheel isn't as readily apparent on a bike due to lower weights.

And storx you just made the best argument for a middie there is. Yes, there are other good reasons to go a middie, but getting out with blistered feet and 2nd degree burns on the arms &/or hands is what pointed me in that direction. I want to have carefree fun and worrying about the heat really takes something out of the driving fun.

On the plus side, a front engine can be driven longer in the winter!!

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mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

Bike rims are designed for bike tires, not car tires. Car tire beads seat differently compared to bike tires. Using a car tire on bike rim may place additional side loads on the rim causing it to fail. Keep this in mind when you design your vehicle.

bnc

I found a company that builds them pretty much how i want to build my build except for all the formula 1 stuff.. like the front downforce wing.. im not to sure about that peace on being practical on the street..
I wish i could see the frame on this thing to have more ideas of how they set the frame up..






http://www.tobefast.com/scorpion-motors ... 64536.html

IMHO that Trike is trying a little too hard

in my opinion a couple things are downright goofy (besides the front wing ), like the " inboard " shocks
i think the purpose of inboard shocks is to get them out of the slipstream ... so why would you slap them on top of the nose
just the shocks direct on the A-arms would probably reduce a lot of un-suspended mass (pushrod/bellcrank)

but other than that i do like how short & compact it is (if you imagine it without the WING )
...that engine must be right up to the seat back

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- Stephan -

storx: " I wish i could see the frame on this thing to have more ideas of how they set the frame up.."

You can see many frame details from their website... what's missing?

bnc

You know what i feel like a dummy.. i found the pics of it on a page of someone else talking about it and i googled the name of the build but google failed me.. i overlooked the website being on the actual picture.. sigh... dummy me..

the website is pretty damn detailed i must say...

After looking over the website i was very intrigued about this....

From off there website:

Why isn't the 1000cc version of this available?
From our research the cost benefit of registering a 600cc motorcycle vs 1000cc motorcycle is huge. When we requested insurance on the 1000cc version we built, the insurance was harder to come by and over twice the price.

What are these classified?
We keep the part of the frame from the donor that has the VIN, so the scorpion is titled as a Kawasaki ZX6r

How does reverse work on the scorpion?
The zx6r drivetrain is connected to a custom 1:1 ratio transmission built to our specs by polaris that has seperate control to put into reverse.

i messaged the guy on youtube who built the scorpion p6 and he literally replied back to me like an hour later.. here is what he said to me..