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PostPosted: April 13, 2015, 3:08 pm 
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Hello all

I;m new on this and just found this site, for sure, after i'm cloase to finish the project :)
Beeing upset on my R21 europacup replica with 2.2l turbo engine and FWD, decided to save by scrap an old VW Golf MK1 made for rally on late 80's, then used on hillclimb and stationed on a yard for 5 years wayting somebody to mount an audi quattro transmission.

because the car was owned by different friends of mine during time, i decided i don't let it go to scrap...had a crushed Yamaha FZS 1000 engine (initially bought as donator for the other project, a Formula Easter monopost-on restauration-choosed to use an original engine for that piece of history and not a bike one)...and that's the story...few months of working on and after work, took it to my shop to make something when time permitted(because at home, no chance)...not so many informations, just few pics and a dream...an aspirated with lot of rpm's and sequential gears :mrgreen:

even i have already made an LSD for chain drive for the ex easter(donator was an BMW big box diff) restauration project, i decided to use a small LSD differential complete from BMW( i don;t know E30, 40, 50, 100, i'm not a bimmer fan :), but this time, a small one-considering the weights.

thinking a little and working a lot, buidling and modifiyng without a project, this is what resulted

first test was surprsingoy good, even false air comming on carburettors joints and obtained only 5-6K RPMs, even changed 2 water coolers on different positions(just temporary solutions) now finally mounted a new one, need only the ventlilators and fresh air ducts; saturday just painted the cockpit, now i have to remount the brake lines and stuff, rewire and add new wires, programming a PIC for making a kynd of electronic dashboardwith rpms, speed, water temp etc...and...just 1 month till the first hillclimb race

forgot to say, that;s the only place were i will go with it, hillclimb, because our club organise hillclimb races and , to be fair, it;s the onlyk ynd of races that i really like and i can participate

i have to say again, nice to meet you guys, thanks for your time and sorry for my bad english

few pics, maybe more to come if anybody's interested


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PostPosted: April 16, 2015, 12:55 am 
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Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about the English, we struggle with it too sometimes!

Sure we would like to see pictures. Adapting motorcycle engine is interesting for many of us. I also love hillclimbs!

Lot's of pictures, we can all understand that. :)

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PostPosted: April 16, 2015, 4:35 pm 
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Joined: April 13, 2015, 2:38 pm
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Thanks :)
Promisse to come with more pics when i'll have something new.

Forgot to say...sorry for mad-max style, the project started like a scrapheap challenge...hope to fininsh it in another way :)


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PostPosted: April 27, 2015, 12:07 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF7GgVu-fmM


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PostPosted: April 27, 2015, 1:21 am 
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Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
Looks like fun, very nice.
Kristian

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PostPosted: May 3, 2015, 2:44 pm 
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beeing a newbie on bec's i put a stupid question...how long the original clutch lasts?
on the short tests that i;ve made i've didn't had problems, just few rpm spikes on 4-5 gear but only when cornering...on straight line,apparently no problem; i've put this problem on lsd's side(thinking it's a street one with only 25% theoretically) but wasn't sure about that...as i said, the clutch don;t seem to slip from 1 to 6 gear ...

today, trying to move the wheels with the rear side up on the air, with 2-nd gear and some braking i managed to stop the wheels and the engine still runs...some smoke came out from the clutch side(maybe on case breather because it;s on free air for the moment), but this didn;t seemed normal to me

beeing a biker, car driver and racing pilot for a long time but beeing the first scrap BEC project, i ask if that seem normal for you guys
to be fair, i don;t know much about the engine that i have, only it comes from a broken FZS1000 with not so many km's(last 5 years staied in my shed) so, for a bike with approx 15000 kml like ex owner says, it's something normal to have such a behaviour on clutch? the rest of the engine looks like a top, no usual signs of a weared engine

i will try tomorrow to find time to dissasemble the clutch and check the discs thickness, eventually add some washers under the clutch springs to stiffen a little(just for a momentary solutions) until i buy a new clutch kyt

forgot to say, just saw that the oil level it's higher than maximum level mark, to be fair i added a little much when i;ve changed it, thinking of the rotated position of the engine and because it's about 1-2 degrees tilted on the back(i wasn't very accurate when i;ve made engine mounts)-so the higher oil level it;s another problem

any suggestions and opinnions are welcome
thanks


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PostPosted: May 4, 2015, 11:20 am 
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Joined: August 12, 2012, 6:38 pm
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
well, you did right to preload the clutch springs and tighten up the engagement of the plates. that will definitely help clutch life in your installation. Of course, clutch life will depend on the amount of Hoon you engage. If you do a crap ton of burnouts, the clutch is gonna give it up sooner than if you don't. Ask me how I know ;-)

the smoke you saw is very likely vaporized oil coming out the breather from overfilling, and doesn't really indicate anything about clutch condition. given that your clutch is fully enclosed in an oil bath, you won't see smoke from the clutch (the way you would a dry automotive clutch) under abuse.

the big give-away on motorcycle clutch health is whether or not it slips under application of power. get it up into top gear, and do some roll-ons from MID rpms to HIGH rpms, and if it slips, well, then, its time for a refresh.

one key element fo keeping the clutchhealthy is not using regular automotive oils in the engine. Auto oils these days have special friction modifiers that are death to oil-bath wet clutches. use motorcycle oils only, and go heavier than specified on the oil weight for that engine.

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PostPosted: May 4, 2015, 1:07 pm 
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thanks for your reply
for my happiness it seems it's ok what i was thinking...i will try to find time to dismantle the clutch and check the plates thickness according to manual...the problem is that the manual give a solution for adjusting the "sandwich" thickness by changing 2 plates woth some adjusting plates...but the yamaha dealer here is just a stupid one, didn;t know about this:))

finally, i will check the thickness of the plates and if they are aout of range, i will change them...hope to be that, to have a simple solution to solve the problem...i will add the extra shims on springs to stiffen a little the srpings and we will see

about using engine motor oil, relax, i can't be so stupid :) my cars and bikes runs only on Motul, but the cars on car oil and the bike only on bike speciffied oil

thanks again for your time :cheers:


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PostPosted: May 4, 2015, 2:06 pm 
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Something I did with a dirt bike that had a clutch that would slip was to add an extra steel plate to the stack. According to motorcycle forums, that particular bike (Honda XR650R) would start to slip the clutch when still pretty new and the extra plate was a pretty common fix. That was probably 6 or 7 years ago and I've never had anymore clu5ch issues.
Kristian

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PostPosted: May 5, 2015, 12:40 am 
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interesting, i was thinking to add a plate, but i don;t have any idea how could i add only a steel plate or a friction plate...i need to add them like a set, one steel and one friction-particularry in my case, i cant add just one of them

but thinking a little, you can be right for my case too, maybe at one end of the "sandwich" i can add a plate only like a shim to tithten even much the assembly...
i'll check and i will let you know

keep on touch


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PostPosted: May 5, 2015, 1:19 am 
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If you do add an extra plate, you have to make sure the clutch stack isn't so tall that the clutch won't disengage. I put my extra steel plate in first to shim the whole stack outwards, but it probably wouldn't make much difference where it is.
Kristian

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Last edited by turbo_bird on May 5, 2015, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 5, 2015, 7:46 am 
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m_a_e wrote:
finally, i will check the thickness of the plates and if they are aout of range, i will change them...hope to be that, to have a simple solution to solve the problem...i will add the extra shims on springs to stiffen a little the srpings and we will see.
:


Friction plates aren't super thick to begin with. I just replaced the friction plates in the B-3, and the new ones measured .110, the old ones measure .109, which was in spec, but they were heavily glazed from slipping.

adding additional plates to the clutch stack is fundamentally the same as adding shims to the springs. Either method preloads the springs to increase clamping pressure under engagement. the steel plates average somewhere between .065-094 in my experience, so you could add a shim made from a 1/16 thick washer to easch spring and that'd get you there.

if you've got the clutch apart, you might as well also give the steel plates a scuff on some sandpaper to remove any glazing.

whatever you do, that's a pretty kewl machine you've got there. ;-)

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PostPosted: May 5, 2015, 3:30 pm 
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checked everything today...found a small piece of steel, like a 2mm shim but beeing a scrap,INSIDE the clutch assembly
even the engine wasn;t opened before, i can't understand how this scrap part, looking like a scrap from a machining process was inside the clutch assembly, between plates, presure plate, etc...some blue prints on the steel plates( because of local overheating), friction plates like brand new, only few 0.1mm under the maximal thickness gaved by manual...

reasembled all, checked in all gears, different rpms, no chance to stop the wheels with brakes without engine stops...seems the problem is solved, but i sill wonder how it;s possible this stupid small steel scrap part to be INSIDE te clutch assembly from factory

i assume that this clutch never worked very good, but maybe on the bike this wasn;t very clear...now, when put on clutch little much effort, seems that problem occured ...

thanks for advices and time :cheers:


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PostPosted: May 15, 2015, 4:29 am 
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and a kynd of fast paintjob


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PostPosted: April 27, 2016, 4:18 pm 
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After a little long time and some races and a few improvements made, i come back with a new project on the same chassis . Just bought a K8 damaged busa and made my day reflashing the ecm with a non immo (usa) soft because mine was useless, even i have the original keys...the immo was broken on accident.
With starter cover replacement wich i luckyly found in my area and some minor fixings just started it and works like a charm.

Even i will start to replace the engine with the new one only on the end of the summer(because i want to play with the actual one) i need to collect as many informations as i can. Even in the last two weeks i studied a lot about busa's engines to make it work, now i need informations from others who made conversions with this type of engine already. I prefer to ask, not to reinvent the wheel :)

So, it will be another transversally mounted bike engine, coupled on the back differential. Is there any problem on mounting the engine on this position? Do i need to modify the oil pan, some baffles, etc or maybe an accusump(assuming i don't want a dry sump for the moment)
In the same time, for weight distribution but primarily for better cooling i think i'll move the water radiator on the front. If i remember well, i saw somwhere written that is necessary an additional electric water pump, because of the length of water pipes from engine to the radiator and the risk of the original pump to cavitate.

This is only the beginning.
Any sugestions are welcome
Thanks in advance!


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