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 Post subject: Why not
PostPosted: July 23, 2016, 8:31 pm 
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Joined: June 18, 2016, 12:39 am
Posts: 121
Well, the whole idea here is to keep costs down, the car is called a LoCost, and bike engines aren't cheap. You can go to an automotive salvage yard like Pick-N-Pull, there's at least 2 in every major city, and get any complete engine you like for under $300. If you're really good at searching Craig'sList, you can find running donor cars for $300.
Nowhere in Utah nor Idaho is there a Pick-N-Pull for motorcycles, not Harley, not Japanese. But PNP-style yards, full of cars, we have at least 8 that I personally have visited. And many more yards that won't let you pull parts yourself, but will sell you engines cheap.
If you want 120-ish HP, a bullet-bike engine may peak there at 15,000 RPM, which will wear it out in about 4 hours, and sound annoying doing it, or a Honda VTec will do the same while doing around 40 MPG, and you certainly must figure fuel consumption into how much any given engine will ultimately cost you.
Bike engines don't bolt up to automotive transmissions, and bike transmissions are for 500# bikes, not 1500# cars. Car transmissions are for 3000# cars. That's 6 times the safety factor, for a very small weight penalty.
A car engine peaking at 120 HP will have much more average HP, and will run at least 200,000 miles. Never even heard of one single bullet bike engine making it to 100,000 miles, but I have heard of some cars making it past 350,000 miles. I have one going in my LoCost that is over 300,000 miles, never rebuilt, not smoking.
Guys who can fix car engines are a dime a dozen. But if your bike engine breaks down, it's gonna cost you, a LOT! Likewise getting parts, auto parts stores might carry a few Harley maintenance things, but that's about it.
Now, everyone try to give adequate reasons to choose one.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you want, and if you're dead set on it, noone will talk you out of trying it. But now you have been warned.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 23, 2016, 9:07 pm 
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Joined: August 27, 2005, 1:04 am
Posts: 1358
Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
Well just for giggles, an 08+ hayabusa makes close enough to 200hp at 10k rpm, has a 6 speed sequential transmission, and the whole works weighs about 200lbs. My locost weighs 1300lbs with an iron v6 that weighs about 430lbs with the transmission, starter, flywheel/clutch, etc, and makes probably a similar amount of power, but at a lower rpm and with a bunch more torque. By simply swapping to a hayabusa engine I could lose 200lbs or more off my car, that's better than 15% weight reduction. I haven't done anything with a bike engine, but maybe someday. For me, the appeal is the lack of weight, sequential transmission, and how quickly the bike engines pick up rpm.
Kristian

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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 24, 2016, 9:21 am 
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Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 645
Location: Pemberton, BC
Thanks for the warning.
I would have nearly continued with that stupidity, but thanks to your eloquent and well thought out post, I shall get rid of the bike engine and become more sensible.
There are no adequate reasons to make one engine choice over another. The whole nature of our builds, are an impractical vehicle, where fuel mileage and longevity take a back seat to just having plain fun. And quite frankly, if a builder is not able to perform some mechanical repairs on the engine of their choice, they might consider a different hobby.
I have read your posts to this forum, and have refrained from replying, and will continue to do so, because you are opinionated and rude, while displaying amateurish ideas. One of the things you will find on this forum, if you were to bother reading some of the build logs, is the grace and humility that some of the more successful builders display. Grace in sharing their work; humility in accepting that their approach may not necessarily be right, but learning and modifying as they go along. Neither trait appears to be inherent to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 25, 2016, 10:02 am 
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Joined: April 12, 2010, 5:40 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: san francisco bay area
Funny that, I thought that the idea of calling it a Locost was because I could build exactly what I wanted without spending a small fortune.
7 lbs per hp out of my garage? Easy stuff. Even 5 lbs per hp is easy to build. However a comparable sports car from a large manufacturer in the same class would cost me at least a years wages out of pocket. 2 years if I want something Italian.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 25, 2016, 12:41 pm 
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Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 2985
Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
mgkluft wrote:
...you are opinionated and rude...
Plenty of people on this site are opinionated. That in of itself is not typically a problem, even when the opinions differ...In this case though, I think "arrogant and condescending" would be a more accurate description.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 25, 2016, 1:29 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Sometimes it comes across as trolling, purposefully posting something sure to get a reaction. What puts it over the top though is the "how dare you contradict me." Wrong place for that sort of sensitivity.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 28, 2016, 6:37 am 
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Joined: September 3, 2012, 10:48 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Hamden CT.
all i can say is dave is a very ignorant person .
people like this don't do anything but make me feel sorry for them .

having built and worked on more motorcycle powered cars then i can remember you get to know the good and the bad about them but the same can be said for all cars no matter what engine they use.


as for the 300 dollars for a motor ? just about any motor for that cost would be a total POS with high miles and need a rebuild or it would be a motor that is just not all to good to began with ! the average DOHC v-tec motor goes for more then twice that and the average SOHC v-tec's are in the high 400 range .

what i do is buy salvage from salvage auctions .
i buy both cars and bikes this way and at the end of the day you should at the least break even if not make money . i just picked up a salvage NB miata for 800 and a few weeks ago i got a 2012 GSXR1000 for 475 dollars . i needed all the suspension out of the miata and have sold the motor and trans to a spec miata racer for 700 bucks and i still have most of the body panels to sell . the GSXR i pulled the ECU, wiring and dash as it was the parts i needed and have a buyer for the motor and side panels and a few other little things .
so IMO pick and pull your getting screwed by over paying and having to do all the work your self .


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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 28, 2016, 7:55 am 
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Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
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Location: Summerville, SC
962porsche wrote:
What i do is buy salvage from salvage auctions .
i buy both cars and bikes this way and at the end of the day you should at the least break even if not make money .


Do you have a dealer or breaker license? I've been thinking about the salvage auction route, but the online auction sites are a giant PITA with exorbitant fees.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 29, 2016, 7:48 am 
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Joined: September 3, 2012, 10:48 pm
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Location: Hamden CT.
yes i have a repair license but about 40% of the auctions i buy from you do not need one they are open to the general public .
i do my biding on line some you can place a max bid of say 1000 dollars it will place a bid for you until it hits your set max price . some auction sites do auto bids in 25 dollar increments others in 50 dollar increments until it hits your max bid you want to place .
some of the auction fees are a yearly fee you only pay once and yes they can be high if your only buying one or two cars a year . others you pay a percentage of the selling price and they range from 5% to 20% of the cars selling price . i do not deal with the auctions that are over 10 % much at most i will buy from one of them that has a 15% fee .

like auctions better then buying from a individual from say CL the reason is the individual selling his personal bike or car is trying to get every cent out of it he can so most will try and BS you about what they have to sell . an auction site deals with so many bikes and car they have no reason to BS you . they have good clear photos of what your looking to buy they tell you if it doesn't start , starts or drives . if it has a engine code on the dash they do not clear them like many personal sales people will do selling what they have on CL.

the miata i just pickup i paid 800 .
paid 500 for the car it's self my max set price was 700
100 for the auction fee .
200 for the shipping from NJ. to CT.

if i compare that to what you see on Cl. the same car on some guy would be asking 1200 dollars for it needing a door rocker and fender . you would have to spend you time going to look at the car then you would have to deal with the car owner and him thinking the car is worth it's weight in gold then you would have to deal with getting it back to your shop .
for me doing that is more of a PITA then a few clicks on a mouse sitting at my desk having my morning coffee .

the percentage of bids i win is about 65%
the amount of cars and bikes i will break even or make money on is 90% .
making money has more to do with your biding cap price . at times i will just want a car or bike so i will put a higher cap on it then i really should just so i can get the car .

the car i bough before the miata was a early 944 . the car had fuch wheels that i know the porsche people like and the wheels were in great shape . i paid 625 all in on the car and sold the wheels for 1200 dollars on ebay . the car was hit in the rear and that's why it was totaled i still have the rest of the car i can sell the part off of it .


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 Post subject: Re: Why not
PostPosted: July 29, 2016, 9:35 am 
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Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
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Location: Summerville, SC
962porsche wrote:
the percentage of bids i win is about 65%
the amount of cars and bikes i will break even or make money on is 90% .
making money has more to do with your biding cap price . at times i will just want a car or bike so i will put a higher cap on it then i really should just so i can get the car .



I'm in purchasing, so I learned very early in my career that you make or lose money on the front end.

I've got a buddy in the upstate that owns a wrecking yard. He bought a couple of cars for me several years ago and I paid him 10% for his trouble. It was worth every penny.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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