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Build Using Harley Motor
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Author:  rx7locost [ June 19, 2017, 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

Sure you can. No builder has ever taken on a project like this before. That is, up until their first. You sound like you have what it takes. Not time like the present! :cheers: For the welding skiils, practice, practice, practice. It won't take long to get the feel with any reasonable MIG welder. Definitely use Co2 mix gas. Skip right over the flux core wire. For design issues, there is lots of good people here to help. When you make mistakes, and there will be plenty, it is only steel, cut it out and do it over.

Author:  stldave [ June 22, 2017, 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

I have been researching a Harley powered car for many years. Why a Harley? For the thump of it! Just a cool motor, and an alternative to a bike. Biggest issue I have found is the connection to the weak Harley bottom end. I am thinking front drive Subaru arrangement, kind of a 4 wheel Morgan look. Pembleton anyone?

I have seen discussions on a "cush joint" to connect the engine and trans, but flywheel still needs to be supported seperate from the engine. Not sure a greased flange bearing would hold up to 5-6000 rpm. Maybe a wet lubed bearing set up? I need to buy a twin cam B and a Suby trans and see what developes.

Anybody really stuck a HD to a car trans and not blown out the bottom end?

Author:  DeanD3W [ July 19, 2017, 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

If you want to consider a Moto Guzzi engine, or would be willing to sort out a similar adaptation of a HD or S&S engine to a VW transaxle, you could have front wheel drive and a reverse gear that way. http://www.blackjackzero.com/pages/blackjack_zero.html

Another approach would be to mount a HD engine with its crankshaft longitudinal, run a belt to an off-center Baker transmission (mount the battery opposite the transmission to balance the weight a bit), then another belt back on-center to the pinion of one of these http://eliteracingtransmissions.com/cat ... /mx200-il/ This way you would have a sequential transmission with 5 or 6 speeds, a reverse gear, and drop/quick-change gearing, and front wheel drive. For rear wheel drive mount the MX200 in the rear and run a driveshaft that is driven by the belt that comes from the Baker output shaft. This way you won't have all the hassles of trying to adapt the HD engine to an automotive transmission.

To make this enough fun to drive I wouldn't want the curb weight to be much above 1000 pounds.

Dean

Author:  Dan Lockwood [ February 14, 2018, 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

Good morning.

Atengnr, sorry if I hijacked your thread, but I felt it needed a bit of revitalization. :)

I'm relatively new here, but I would like to add to this thread a bit and maybe bring it back to life.

I too am in the beginning process of a Harley powered "something" other than a bike.

At first I was bitten by the Morgan Three Wheeler bug.

This is the new M3W powered by an S&S 2L coupled via Morgan's adapter and a Centa rubber "compensator" of sorts running via a remote supported Miata flywheel, clutch and '06 - '14 Miata 5 speed trans.

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In the first couple years they actually used a Harley compensator mounted in a housing bolted to the Harley crank. Then it was packed with grease, but as most Harley owners know, the compensator is not the strongest part of the driveline and needs to be dripping with oil to not wear out the ramps. But the grease didn't do what they thought it would and they failed miserably in just a few thousand miles.

Now they use a Centa coupler that bolts in the same way, but has an inner 4-sided scooped out pockets and rubber rods about 1.5" in diameter roll between an outer housing with the mating 4-sided scooped out pockets. This allows for a non-metal coupling like a very loose Love Joy type coupling. These are holding up a LOT better and allow more drivability and less vibration.

This is a ready to bolt in S&S Morgan drive train. Pretty straight forward when all coupled together.

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The S&S is a 56 degree v-twin and still has "some" inherent vibration and crank torque pulses. But it seems to get the job done. The claim a weight of around 1250# and a 0-60 speed of around 6.5 - 7 seconds. It runs a 175/60x16" rear tire and does get some wheel spin.

I've acquired a Harley late model touring rear wheel/belt sprocket and cush drive hub, but I decided not to go the Harley swingarm route. To do that I still needed a 90 degree bevel box to go from driveshaft to drive belt sprocket. For this I had purchased a GL-1800 final drive that without a LOT of work would be converted to work and it has a 2.75:1 ratio ($40 delivered).

But then I found on eBay a complete new takeoff rear GL-1800 swingarm assembly with disc, driveshaft and caliper ($99 delivered). I then purchased the adjustable shock and linkage to use it vertically like on the GW. But now my GW driveshaft is offset from the centerline of the vehicle by almost 5". The driveshaft on the swingarm needs to be preloaded a bit, probably in the 20# range and also supported. I've gone through many different scenarios on what or how to do this and had almost decided to go back to the Harley full rear swingarm etc.

Then Jays on the Talk Morgan forum from the UK posted a Photoshopped picture of a M3W that blew me away.

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I know it's not a trike, but it still meets my concept of a very cool car. Not fast or anything, but just a great country road cruiser.

I plan on using an '00 to '02 Harley 88" twin cam "B" motor. The "B" motors are fully counterbalanced internally with spinning twin counter balance weights like used in many automotive applications. This motor in a new bike has NO vibration at all. Although it will still have some torque pulses, I think it will be a better choice. I can always do an overbore and get 95" and around 80 hp running a carb with a Thunderheart standalone ignition system. This makes the wiring of the motor very doable without a lot of harnesses/EMC etc.

I have acquired a mid 60's MG Midget wire wheel rear end housing for the rear of the new M4W. I will widen the housing 3" per side and Moser will be making my special axles. I'll run Triumph Spitfire front rotors with Wilwood 4-piston calipers and retain the stock rear drum brakes on the MG Midget housing. I'll be getting 2.5"x18" MG TA wheels from MWS in the UK. I'll be running 4.00x18" tires all around, so you can see I'm not into the carving corners too hard.

I still have my Boardtrack Racer bike project to finish and then it's going to be sold. This should give me "starting" money to build my car. Right now I've put together a budget and it's around $18k. But that includes custom leather seats made in classic British style with seat warmers, custom gauges and now probably GPS speedo to reduce the electronics of the trans to speedo.

So if anyone has any suggestions, experiences, thoughts etc on this project, feel free to let them fly.

Here is my Picture Trail album link if anyone would like to see current and past projects I've done.

http://www.picturetrail.com/Dan_Lockwood

Thanks and I hope the OP guy can get his project rolling soon.

Dan

Author:  TomyJ [ December 29, 2018, 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

Attachment:
Corbin roadster-Harley-s-l1000.jpg
Attachment:
Harley VW trike-ujm.jpg
Attachment:
Harley VW trike-Corbin Merlin-021.jpg
Something like these? Have fun...EDIT: Merlin Roadster. The HD motor transmits power to the front wheels through a four speed Volkswagen transaxle.
Attachment:
Harley VW trike-ujm.jpg

Author:  Lonnie-S [ December 30, 2018, 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

@Dan Lockwood
That M4W idea looks like a really novel and interesting build, Dan. I took a look at your project pictures. I'm not sure how that front suspension works, but it looks like a cool project.

How about starting a build log here?

@TomyJ
That front wheel drive chassis looks very interesting. Is it your idea/build? What will the end-result look like?

Cheers, and Happy New Year!

Author:  Dan Lockwood [ November 26, 2020, 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor

Lonnie-S wrote:
@Dan Lockwood
That M4W idea looks like a really novel and interesting build, Dan. I took a look at your project pictures. I'm not sure how that front suspension works, but it looks like a cool project.

How about starting a build log here?

@TomyJ
That front wheel drive chassis looks very interesting. Is it your idea/build? What will the end-result look like?

Cheers, and Happy New Year!


Hi all again!

Hope you all have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

This is a "little" long, so get the popcorn and relax. Not sure what Lonnie meant about starting a build log, maybe someone can explain that as I get deeper into this project? Thanks!

It's been a few years and I still have the urge to build a Harley powered car. So much so, that I have acquired quite a few parts already. I'm in the late stages of finishing up my Boardtrack Racer Bike project that's been accumulating dust for the past 10 years. But now that I'm retire, almost a year now, to fund my Harley car, the wife said go for it, but no money from our savings and NO LOAN! Okay, I can work with that. I have "stuff' that i can get rid of to give me some working capital etc... :)

Over the past several years, the direction of the Morgan M3W as a M4W, has passed and my true goal is to upscale a very rough replica of a MG M-Type 2-seater car with the Harley motor mounted out front.

Here's the plan and where I'm at parts wise at the moment. Keep in mind that I am NOT into this project yet, but if parts happen to come up cheap, I'll get some just because.

MG made their M-type for just a few short years, '28 thru '32 I believe. I'll have the motor mounted with the cylinders to each side and the crankshaft longitudinal with the car.

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These cars are VERY small and the seats are only 14" wide at the base. I sat in one and it was really uncomfortable as I'm a 230# guy. So my plan is to upscale the body about 10% to 12%. The interior width stock is around 35". I was able to find locally a MG TD windshield assembly that is not in too bad of condition, easily re-chromed when finished. Then I found a guy up in WI that has a BUNCH of MG TD stuff and he had several TD cowls (scuttles as they're called in the UK) that my windshield assembly bolts right up to. I bought that and together they will serve as my main measuring point to build the body. The base is around 41" wide and should give me a real person seating space.

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Next I picked up my Harley power. I bought an '05 CVO Fat Boy motor/trans assembly. This is a 103" (1690cc) motor. The Softails all use a pain counterbalance shafts to smooth out the torque pulses and vibration. If anyone has ridden an '00 or later Softail, you can attest to the smoothness of the motor. I thought I would have to live with an 88" "B" motor, but I found this CVO version and they're usually larger displacement than normal year motors. I was able to start out much larger in size for no extra cost. My guess in a bike that this motor the way I'll be running it would put down around 80 rwhp. Should be more than enough to push a 1,300# car around in snappy fashion... :)

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Next I found an '06 Miata later model 5 speed transmission, the same one Morgan uses on their M3W's. It was from a burn car with only 20k miles on the ticker for $500. Should be good as new for my purposes.

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Rather than re-inventing the wheel, I chose to just purchase the motor to trans adapter housing from a Morgan dealer in Chicago. A bit pricy, but it's a proven part that eliminated lots of frustration on my part. They also have a fairly proven compensator coupler now from the motor crank to the flywheel, which I will also purchase. It's shown below as part #3.

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I ordered my wheels from MWS (Motor Wheel Services) in the UK. They make wheels for Morgan's new cars as well as a full line of classic spoke wheels like I needed. I had to have special hubs as the narrow rims did not come on the hubs I needed. I purchased 2.15"x19" 60-spoke silver painted wheels. They came all mounted with 4.00x19" Blockley rubber. I also purchase chrome 2-ear spinners in 12 tpi for front and rear.

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I've also picked up front and rear end parts. For the rear end, I picked up an early MGB banjo rear end axle assembly. It has a 3.9:1 diff now and I have two more diffs at 4.3:1 and 4.55:1. Not sure how the ratio will work out for the lower torque Harley with the Miata O/D trans with 28" tall tires. So the 4.3 or 4.55 may come into play. The rear drum brakes are 10" and will look quite nice showing through the spoke wheels.

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The front end comes from a '57 MGA. I found that by just a few thou ream on the king pin bores that '55 & '56 GMC king pins will fit. I had to shorten them, but the king pin kit comes with the king pins, thrust bearings, top and bottom bushings, locking draw pins and soft plugs. I drew up a knuckle that would work for me and our machine shop foreman made them up for me for a case of beer. They're 1.625 thick and my solid tube front axle is 1.5" OD x 1.125" ID 3/16" wall DOM. I plan on doing a slight bend up at each end, like a dropped hot rod solid tube axle. The front brakes are also 10" drums and will match perfectly the rears.

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You can see the counterbore at the top and there's one at the bottom for the soft plugs. After I have the bushings measured up and know where to drill for the grease fittings top and bottom, the soft plugs will be put in.

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I plan on making the chassis hot rod style with a ladder tube frame, probably 1.5"x3"x1/8" wall. Plenty of cross bracing to boot. The body will be formed using 1.25" square aluminium tubing rolled on my Harbor Freight tubing roller. I'll make up square tube dies and it will work out find. I plan on doing suicide doors so the latches will be easier to reach and will also allow a bit more foot room to get in/out. I'm not sure yet what pedal box type I will use, but I'm leaning toward Wilwood hanging. This car will not be too accommodating to varying size people, but I hope to help that out some. I'm 6'-1" and the wife is 5'-4". She and I both plan on driving the car. My thoughts are this, and some suggestions are welcome on everything I'm doing here, but I was thinking of mounting the pedal box on a low profile sliding seat track with the "U" shaped handle release they sell like at Speedway. That way the seat to steering wheel distance will remain the same, but the pedals will slide front to rear with the life of a handle, hopefully about 6" total. Any thoughts on that?

That's it for now. As I said this is NOT an active project just yet... :) I have the Boardtrack in clear coat as we speak. I should be assembling it for the last time on Saturday and then I get to do all the wiring for the last time. OH BOY!!!

Hope you all have a great Holiday Weekend... :)

Dan

Author:  RichardSIA [ November 27, 2020, 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor - Wheel hubs.

One caution regards your wire wheels.
Worn splines on the hubs will wear the new wheel splines very quickly and I know the wheels could not have been cheap.
Please clean the axle splines very well and take a close look at the splines.
Look at the new splines on your wheels, note how wide the flats at the top of each spline are.
Now look at the splines on the hubs, if they are not matching width or very close to it, replace them.
You can also look at the ends of the splines, if the flats are wider beyond the wear area the splines are worn and the hubs should be replaced.
I am sure new hubs are much less expensive than the wheels were.

Author:  Dan Lockwood [ November 27, 2020, 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build Using Harley Motor - Wheel hubs.

RichardSIA wrote:
One caution regards your wire wheels.
Worn splines on the hubs will wear the new wheel splines very quickly and I know the wheels could not have been cheap.
Please clean the axle splines very well and take a close look at the splines.
Look at the new splines on your wheels, note how wide the flats at the top of each spline are.
Now look at the splines on the hubs, if they are not matching width or very close to it, replace them.
You can also look at the ends of the splines, if the flats are wider beyond the wear area the splines are worn and the hubs should be replaced.
I am sure new hubs are much less expensive than the wheels were.


Richard, thanks for the reply.

I plan on replacing all my splined hubs with new ones. There's no reason to put new onto old with this much money invested.

All of the components that are used except for the Miata 5-speed, will be rebuilt to new specs, motor included. Everything else will be new when building.

This really doesn't fit the "Locost" term very well though. I'm guessing that I will have well over $15k into this car before it's finished. But at the price of the Morgan Three Wheeler, which is now in its last production run, this will still be much more fun and a LOT less money. Morgan says they will be back with a new version soon. The problem I believe is the that the EU4-5 emissions specs cannot be met with the S&S 2L v-twin motor. There's rumors of possibly BMW motors, Moto Guzzi motors, who knows at this point. I also understand that S&S is dropping production of the Wedge motor. They came out with it specifically for the aftermarket bike builders to use, but not many jumped at the opportunity and there are not a lot of aftermarket bike builders left at this point.

I know that I'll be able to get parts for anything on my car for quite some time to come.

Thanks again for the reply!

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