LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:56 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 180
Location: San Antonio, Texas
now i have a bug with a heater system that runs off the exhaust, but it doesn't bring harmful fumes into the cab just heat... is their a similar system for BECS or do i have to get a external system and what do you guys recomend?

and i was thinking maybe i want a air conditioner or something to bring in cold air... remember i want to have a roof and windowsd... still working out the design asspect

i was thinking to rig up air ducts off the body and using little comp fans (the expensive ones that have a radiator attached) to pull in air and cool it down!
what do you guys think?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:18 am
Posts: 58
Location: mass
having accessories on a locost never mind a bec locost defeats the entire point of the car.

it's all about minimalism. the least amount of things you need to make it function.

if you want heat, ac roll up (or power for that matter) the car will get so heavy so quick the advantage of BEC goes out the window.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:05 am
Posts: 678
Location: San Antonio
Unless you're going BEC for ease of engine/transmission packaging. Or the lighter weight of a bike engine to allow you to tack it on elsewhere.

Personally, I'm kind of liking the idea of getting one of the new honda goldwing flat 6 engines for a number of reasons.

Decent power. Car-like torque amounts and curve. Same power and MORE torque than the miata 1.6 or a toyota 4age 1.6(not counting jdm silver/black tops). The bike is 900 lbs. So no worries about it holding up to locost use.

Flat 6-so low center of gravity, and a balanced engine. So less vibrations. Just because it's minimalist doesn't mean you should have to suffer. Just make design choices for the car you want.

Compact.
Since there is no transmission tunnel. Which will allow me to have a bench seat, so I can pull the girl close to me on leisurely drives :). And just take out the bench seat and stick in racing buckets for autocross/fun drives. Can close off the engine bay a bit more as well, for more triangulation.

Reverse. Although honestly, that's a plus, not something I'm looking for. If I can push around, and steer a 2700 lb car on level ground, I'm sure I can handle a locust at half the weight, and easier to push(roll bar>door frame, locost weight distribution>car needing power steering with a 500+lb engine over the wheels). But it'll make my girlfriend, parents, and sister more comfortable in the car. And they're gonna drive the crap out of the car as much as I am, most likely. 8)

For a bike, it's a heavy engine-just under 300lbs, fully packaged with accessories, transmission, and fluids. I doubt you're going to get a car engine under 450lbs. But given the output of the engine, that leaves me plenty of room to put in a cd player, and possibly even A/C. Dunno. Haven't looked into the A/C heavily yet. I live in South Texas, I don't need a heater. A/C would be awesome. I was a music major for 3 years. I need my music, 'intake/engine/exhaust noise is music' be damned, I need my Mendelssohn.

So using the goldwing engine allows me to build a car with the amnenities I want, drive like a car, but not end up a morbidly obese locost. Just a BEC that drives and weighs like a car engined car.

I'm not too fond of the two valve/cylinder design. Kind of limiting. But putting some individual throttle bodies and a better exhaust, possibly cams and some headwork, should squeeze out some power.

Plus you could actually size the length individual throttle body system properly, and not be constrained by packaging as much.

If I decide I want the power, and rewire everything. My current car(88 honda prelude) is a 16 second car. I've driven the same chassis as mid 15, low 15, mid 14 and low 14 second cars. If I do go the goldwing route, I'll probably end up with a 13 or low 14 second car. Which is enough for me to have fun in.

But admit it. Seeing 6 velocity stacks sticking up from individual throttle bodies would be sexy. :twisted:

_________________
JSullivan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:58 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 4881
Location: SoCal
JSullivan wrote:
For a bike, it's a heavy engine-just under 300lbs, fully packaged with accessories, transmission, and fluids. I doubt you're going to get a car engine under 450lbs.

That's a pretty nice engine, and a very good weight. However, don't sell car engines short, a complete Honda K24A2 drivetrain is 403 lbs, has reverse, 200 hp, and 160 lb-ft of torque. I know because I just weighed one.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:05 am
Posts: 678
Location: San Antonio
Crap. I was going off F/H/B series honda engines, and older toyota 4age, which are the only ones I've got personal experience with outside of a car. Even b16's come in around 450, but a 400lb 2.4, with how well the K-series takes to bolt ons... :twisted: Way to give BEC's are a run for their money, with a fully built k-series. I didn't think they were that light.

Although the packaging for the goldwing series is still really inviting to me. Now I just need a garage and a welder :(

Haven't looked into it in depth yet though. Was just looking at getting a bike, and was rather intrigued by the engine once I saw a new goldwing. I really like that engine. A friend and I were joking that it would make a rwd conversion on my prelude dead easy, since there's already a driveshaft and differential for the four wheel steering. Just get CAD up some front steer spindles, supercharge the engine to make up for the 17hp loss over stock, and be done. Could do it over spring break :twisted:

If, you know, I spent my tuition money on it. I hate being a poor college student with no workspace :cry:

_________________
JSullivan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:23 pm 
Ford Zetec Twin cam, Webers, Ford T-5 combo is just over 300 lbs, 170-180 hp, and includes reverse...

One problem you might have with the GW engine is the packaging - the GW is very wide, and Locost frames...aren't. They're also tapered the opposite way the GW engine is (frame's engine bay is narrow at the front, wide at the back...GW is wide at the front, narrow at the back). If you can check out the dimensions on one, compare them to the +4 frame plans on McSorely's site, to see if it can be done.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 180
Location: San Antonio, Texas
while i understand what your saying about extra weight of the equipment, but i thought a computer fan with the attached radiator in a body cowl that will supply air flow to the cab would keep it light weight... with the fan being light weight and the radiator on the back would pull in air flow off the body cool it down and throw it into the cab... and hopefully not weight too much!

and ya i live in south texas too, my bro and i drive a bug with no air conditioning and its hot... but in the winter (ie last winter) it was like 30degrees and the heater really helped... so iam convinced that i want one, and hell ill just take it out over summer to save on the weight not a big deal...

so anyone know any heater design to run off the exhaust (like the classic bugs use) or if their is a little heater accessory i could buy that would do the trick?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:00 pm 
You know, it wouldn't be hard to rig up a heat exchanger/heat shield for the muffler, and kill two birds with one stone. Use a duct into the car (with an on/off flapper valve to close it off when you don't want heat), a small fan in-line in the ducting (like a boat's engine-room exhaust fan), and you're done. It wouldn't take much sheet metal work to do it. I'd use some stainless sheet metal - it'd look nice, too.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 180
Location: San Antonio, Texas
hey thats a brilliant idea... thanks for the tip man


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:34 am 
Offline
Man of Constant Hazard
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:18 am
Posts: 3071
Location: Lexington, KY
Assphalt Kicker wrote:
while i understand what your saying about extra weight of the equipment, but i thought a computer fan with the attached radiator in a body cowl that will supply air flow to the cab would keep it light weight... with the fan being light weight and the radiator on the back would pull in air flow off the body cool it down and throw it into the cab... and hopefully not weight too much!


I'm installing one of these in my car...pretty much what you just described. You could build one for just about free from scrap parts, I think:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Image

-dave

_________________
...nowadays people are so intellectually lazy and lethargic that they can't build ANYTHING with their hands. They'll spend hours watching whiny people marooned on an island, but won't spend a second adding anything to the world. -weconway
Visit my [Locost 7 build log]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Valley of the Sun
Gerbing Heated Motorcycle Clothing... www.gerbing.com

Just run the pigtail for the power next to your seat. If it is cold enough you want heat, then it is cold enough to need the jacket anyways.

As for AC, your on your own.

_________________
1962 AH Sprite
1999 Miata
1974 Honda CB750 SOHC (NEW TIME CONSUMER!)
Makings of a Locost BEC scattered all over the garage...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 180
Location: San Antonio, Texas
thanks dave i like the heater u showed... lets see if i can add it into the budget


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: heater
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:12 am
Posts: 1055
Location: S.E. Michigan
Kicker

Or you could build the heater. I got a heater core on E-bay for $11, and it took me about 20 hours to build a heater with the flip valve to control the heater and the defroster function. Total wt was round 14lbs, using the donor fan motor.
AAAAnd during the Michigan inspection they did not even check to see if the defroster would work!!!!

But I'm warm during late fall Blats Dave W


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:53 am
Posts: 53
Does anyone have the approximate dimensions (LxWxH) of that GL1800 goldwing engine (with or without ancillaries, any info would be useful). It is hard to work out from photos of the bike, since most of the engine is covered.

Edit, I have made some extrapolations based on photos of the bike, photos of the engine parts, bore size and and quoted overall dimensions of the bike.
These should be take as extremely appoximate values for an engine with all its ancillaries, any more accurate numbers are still appreciated.

Engine width: 595mm (assumes quoted width of bike at 947mm is width between outer edges of wing mirrors).
Engine height: 450mm (approx, hard to tell what air boxes etc might be sitting on top of the engine from the pics I have, so this is about the height up to the throttle bodies).
Of this total height, the gearbox/clutch is the lower 150mm of the engine.
Engine length: 472mm (to the end of the crankshaft) or 544mm (to the end of the gearbox output shaft).

Do not rely on these figures for decision making purposes..

/entertains dark thoughts about machining the gearbox case off the bottom and hooking it up to a vw beetle..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Valley of the Sun
~edit:comment corrected, had another brand on the brain when I typed this up~

_________________
1962 AH Sprite
1999 Miata
1974 Honda CB750 SOHC (NEW TIME CONSUMER!)
Makings of a Locost BEC scattered all over the garage...


Last edited by impishsprite on Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY