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PostPosted: July 29, 2008, 1:28 pm 
Well, it would fit in my +2 width frame, provided that: 1) the engine could sit well back in the frame (remember, the frame is narrower at the bottom than the top for most of the engine bay's length); and 2) you don't mind possibly having the cylinder head covers poking out through the bodywork :D :D

Not sure how the exhaust would work...


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PostPosted: July 30, 2008, 9:16 am 
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impishsprite wrote:
the gearbox unbolts.


Just wanted to check.. I have not seen one IRL and only have sketchy photos/diagrams to go on, but it looks like the GL1800 crankcase and transmission are the same casting (left and right castings joined at the middle, the manual says "The crankcase must be separated to service the transmission (including gearshift spindle).") going from the pictures here:

http://www.wingtechtips.com/1800EPSS/ep ... /pro38.htm
http://www.wingtechtips.com/1800EPSS/ep ... /pro15.htm

Perhaps you mean the engine cover unbolts (plus the various gears that are driven from the crankshaft?)

Edit: Looks like I am trying to say "it's true because I saw it in a book" but I would not presume to tell anyone who has unbolted the gearbox that they didn't do it, I'm just not sure.


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PostPosted: July 30, 2008, 11:46 am 
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Just a couple of thoughts on the GW. The exhaust is bottom mounted which means you have to mount the whole engine fairly high in the chassis which negates some of the benefits of the flat design.

There is VERY limited aftermarket support so therefore anything more than stock power is going to cost you big time.

Now as to the GW vs the K24, well the K24 is a monster of an engine. (edit: actually the pic is the K20 not the K24. The K20 is smaller than the K24 by a little bit) It sits quite a bit higher than the older B engines and has a lot of weight in the top portion of the block.

So it's over 110# heavier and has a much higher CG. In a light weight car such as a locost 100# located out back like that could make a huge difference in handling.

Here's a pic of the K24 hanging WAY out of the Wicked Mongoose. That and the weight is why we decided not to use it.


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Last edited by carguy123 on August 1, 2008, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 2:58 pm 
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00000 wrote:
impishsprite wrote:
the gearbox unbolts.


Just wanted to check.. I have not seen one IRL and only have sketchy photos/diagrams to go on, but it looks like the GL1800 crankcase and transmission are the same casting (left and right castings joined at the middle, the manual says "The crankcase must be separated to service the transmission (including gearshift spindle).") going from the pictures here:

http://www.wingtechtips.com/1800EPSS/ep ... /pro38.htm
http://www.wingtechtips.com/1800EPSS/ep ... /pro15.htm


Yup, I had BMW on the brain, their shaft drive transmission unbolts from the engine case. I do sit corrected.

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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 5:36 pm 
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That's a very tall engine.

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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 5:54 pm 
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That's my point about the K20 and K24. The Goldwing engine is 100# lighter and less than half that height. So even if you lose a few hp vs. the K series you still could end up with just as much performance and you definitely would have better handling.

400+# located in one spot in a 1000# car has a dramatic effect on it's handling and balance especially if it's has as high a CG as that engine does.

The R series Honda engine is quite a bit lighter than the K series and it's shorter as well. It has 140 hp and a very unHondalike flat torque band of 128 lbs (going from memory so don't quote me) on regular gas. Tune it to run on premium and I have seen them getting 160 hp. To me, it's a better choice than the K series or the Gold Wing. There is also the advantage that it's less expensive.

The downside is that there isn't as much performance parts for it, but at 1000# you don't need any more HP.

Should you desire more power that engine comes with it's own built in turbo manifold. Well it's not designed that way, but that's what they are doing with it. It has an integral exhaust manifold with the head. It also has a very neat 2 stage cat that bolts directly to the head and runs down the back for a very neat package.


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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 6:04 pm 
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R-series? What's that out of?

I'm only familiar with b, f, h, and k.

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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 8:37 pm 
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The new base Civic Engine introduced in 2005.

Because all the Civic guys want the K the R is cheap.

It's what we are going to use in the Wicked Mongoose (no longer the Onyx Mongoose).

We'll plumb it for other engines as well.


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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 5:57 am 
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carguy123 wrote:
It also has a very neat 2 stage cat that bolts directly to the head and runs down the back for a very neat package.


The R has the exhaust on the front of the engine like the D, doesn't it? B and K on rear, R and D on front... I think. Do you plan to tilt the engine like was done with the Rover/Mongoose installation?

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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 11:09 am 
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Here are a few links to some data on the engine.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech ... index.html
http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050705_a_1.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlUfgg2m ... re=related

As far as tilting the motor . . . maybe another day. The oiling system is the limiting factor in tilting a motor and I don't have enough experience with the motor yet to be able to say it can be done with certainty. Look at the pics of the engine and see how the "oil pan" is constructed - it's part of the block. Which means we can't easily reshape it to accomodate a different orientation.

In any case we have so much on our plate I first want to just get it running with American parts and make sure everything works like it should.

Here are some videos of turbo motors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HsBwqJn ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEz89bO ... re=related

As far as a low cost turbo kit. What I am told is that the piggyback that allows you to retune the 10.5 compression ratio to use premium gas rather than regular also accomodates boost. This means that if you are willing to settle for 5-6 lbs of boost you could use one of the smaller T25s that came on many factory cars and can be had for $50ish. It has a plastic intake manifold so you'd need to build an intake as well. Check out these guys at Junkyard Turbo group.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/jyt ... roup&slk=1


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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 5:58 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:
It has a plastic intake manifold so you'd need to build an intake as well.


Why do you need a new intake manifold?


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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 6:00 pm 
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Plastic doesn't hold up to boost very well.

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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 6:22 pm 
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I don't know at what pressure the plastic would blow, but you know it would. But then again 5 lbs of boost is not really much pressure.

By the time we are ready to turbo one I am sure all the questions will be answered by a bunch of idiots trying all kinds of combinations.

It would be really nice if a low boost system could use the plastic.

Most turbo applications I have seen so far on the R series have dyno'd only in the low 200's so you know they haven't been really pushin' the envelope - yet.


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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 9:02 pm 
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Unless honda makes some incredibly shitty manifolds I wouldn't worry about it: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72021 A few converted to aluminum manifolds, but they come stock plastic with 13.5 psi, and mod up to the mid 20 psi.


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PostPosted: August 3, 2008, 9:51 pm 
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THAWA wrote:
Unless honda makes some incredibly shitty manifolds I wouldn't worry about it: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72021 A few converted to Aluminium manifolds, but they come stock plastic with 13.5 psi, and mod up to the mid 20 psi.


Engineering plastics are all over the map in both cost and properties, particularly, as relevant in this case, property retention at elevated tempertures. It's not about being "shitty"... when you're building a gazillion cars you don't use a $10/lb plastic when a $5/lb plastic satisfies the stock application... just to make life easier for someone who might decide to add the pressure and hot air of a turbo.

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