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Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion
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Author:  blue devil [ June 3, 2009, 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

olrowdy_01 wrote:
wyked wrote:
Good info. You can find other uses for some of these circuits. I was thinking of using my kickstand circuit as a hidden kill switch.
I used my original kill switch for the ........ (ta-da) ................. *kill switch*! :lol:


Agreed haha but i plan to street drive and park mine. I also plan to convert mine to a push button momentary start button... so having two kill switches is better then one. More i think about it though, i will run the stock kill and run a kill off the fuel pump also.

Author:  olrowdy_01 [ June 3, 2009, 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

Hank wrote:
Definitely good suggestions above.

To add to #7 about the Gear Indicator it might be more helpful to purchase a Gear Indicator with a Timing Retard Eliminator built in. Suzuki, Kawasaki & Triumph motorcycle (my Hayabusa included) engines have timing retard built in to limit the top speed in 6th gear. The GIPro unit eliminates the top speed limiter and it indicates the gear you are in as well. The unit basically fools the ECU into thinking you are in a different gear. It takes advantage of mapping different timing curves for different gears, but it does not effect the idle quality like earlier TRE units.
[snip]
All true.

From what I've read on the net, the stock GSXR ECU retards the timing in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears ONLY. The TRE allows those gears to run advanced timing and removes the rev limiter in 6th gear. The fuel maps -may- also be affected in those gears.

There are other considerations though. Neutral and clutch handle pulled in also have some different fuel and timing settings. Apparently the TRE affects those settings in ways that haven't been revealed to us mortals yet other than it messes up idle when cold etc.

The intelligent TRE units have circuitry that doesn't affect neutral and the clutch switch.

re. another post about the EXCVA (as Suzuki calls it) valve.......... If you want to remove the motor and not have an error code just connect a 1K (or lower ohm) resistor or a small 12V light bulb across the harness power plug to the motor. The ECU will see some current and be happy. I haven't been able to determine what the ECU thinks about the feedback potentiometer readings missing when the motor is removed.

Some websites tell you to short the motor wires at the harness connector together! That's a little brute force....... try the resistor.

Author:  blue devil [ June 3, 2009, 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

Yea i have heard the same about the GSXR motors. Basically the same type of fix for putting all LED blinkers in... you need to add a resistor to mimic the draw of an irredesent light bulb. Only i wish it was that easy for the R1 exup motor. I know over the past years i ran across a few home made circuit boards that did the trick, but by all means they were nothing simple.

Author:  olrowdy_01 [ June 3, 2009, 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

blue devil wrote:
Yea i have heard the same about the GSXR motors. Basically the same type of fix for putting all LED blinkers in... you need to add a resistor to mimic the draw of an irredesent light bulb. Only i wish it was that easy for the R1 exup motor. I know over the past years i ran across a few home made circuit boards that did the trick, but by all means they were nothing simple.
I'm not familiar with the R1 setup. What's the hang up in comparison to the Suzuki way of doing it? I'm thinking of the exhaust side not the intake secondary throttles.

I designed a PIC powered circuit that senses the voltage on the Suzuki GP (gear position) cable for each gear which then lights a series of 7 LEDs (6 speeds + neutral) to tell you what gear your in. I then got interested in the TRE mod and by adding a dual op-amp and a few resistors & diodes I can make it into a not-so "intelligent" TRE.

But after reading about the affects on the fuel maps etc I figured since my engine is running so rich already I needed to concentrate my research on a Megasquirt ECU to get the fueling under control.

And as is the norm in a home built (insert your favorite hobby here) I got sidetracked into looking into a better geared rear end for my car. Which will probably do more to increase my gas mileage than the Megasquirt. Running around in the equivalent of 2nd gear in the motorcycle is not cool.

Author:  chandler [ June 4, 2009, 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

i had a 02 gsxr 6/10 and the tre made no difference. i never reached top speed so that end of didnt matter but for everythingelse it made no difference. mine was switchable also and flipping it back and forth it ran the same.

Author:  R1 Seven [ July 6, 2009, 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

olrowdy_01 wrote:
dhempy wrote:
Yeah, I think it's the same reason swing arms on bikes don't see side loads, but trikes do. When a bike leans, it is leaning exactly enough so that the bike doesn't fall over. A car doesn't lean, so it is trying to fall over.

I vote for ditching the tilt sensor. Or mount it to the fuzzy dice.

-dave
You can use the tilt switch by using a "mount" that allows it to swing from side to side (make sure the wires from it allow it to swing freely). That will simulate the motorcycle leaning in turns and the switch will still do it's job if you roll over. I used some tie wraps looped through each other (like a chain) to restrict it's movement to side to side.

wyked wrote:
Good info. You can find other uses for some of these circuits. I was thinking of using my kickstand circuit as a hidden kill switch.
I used my original kill switch for the ........ (ta-da) ................. *kill switch*! :lol:



A little late to the party on this one. I retained the factory tilt switch FOR safety. I mounted it rigid (in the correct orientation) just in front of the scuttle behind the engine. My car is track use only, and I have had no issues through many weekends of use. I left it in place for the event of a rollover. It should kill the engine without me having to think about it.

HTH

Author:  NoahKatz [ July 14, 2012, 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

dhempy wrote:
Yeah, I think it's the same reason swing arms on bikes don't see side loads, but trikes do.


I'm not so sure about that.

When a bike is leaned over and hits a bump, there's a sideways force component, and the suspension can't soften its impact.

Author:  FastG [ July 14, 2012, 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

Everyone is correct, bikes feel no lateral G forces while being ridden. The lean angle insures the center of gravity in directly down the center of the bike, if it's not you just fell off. Cars have huge lateral G forces. Some of the tip over sensors are mechanical, if so drill a small hole and fill it up with silicone goo. We have had issues on the bikes with very sudden changes in direction causing the engine to kill. A tank slapper is one situation that can cause the sensor to get triggered at exactly the wrong time. I lot of racer disable them.

Graham

Author:  962porsche [ December 5, 2012, 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

on the GSXR motors the tip over sensor (TOS )has to be retained if you just try to unplug it the motor will not run as far as i know there is no ez or good way to remove it . so what you have to do is just pop the cover off and because there is a little horse shoe shaped of wire with a ring on it that when the motor leans to a certain angle it grounds out the motor .
so yes just take the cover off and fill it with silicone making sure the grounding ring is in the center of the horse shoe .

when i 1st bought my D-sports race car the person that did the motor swap did not do the silicone trick and the car would die on me when i would run over the ripple strip in turn 2A at NHMS that was the only place it would kill the motor on almost every lap . it would do it other places and tracks but not all the time . it was not untill i was rewiring the car as to how and when i found out that was going on .

Author:  TRX [ July 13, 2014, 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

FastG wrote:
Everyone is correct, bikes feel no lateral G forces while being ridden.


Sure, as long are you're sitting upright. Once you run out of ground clearance you have to hang off the inside of the turn; "one cheek or two?" Most sportbikes and dual-sports have plenty of clearance, but the "standards" I prefer often don't. With a rider and passenger hanging off in the twisties there's enough side load for the forks to do funny things; they're not really intended for that kind of load.

And I'm not even going to mention the sidecar and tricycle guys...


Quote:
Cars have huge lateral G forces. Some of the tip over sensors are mechanical, if so drill a small hole and fill it up with silicone goo.


I actually added a Ford G-sensor/crash sensor to my RX-7. The GM '727 EFI system I'd cobbled onto the small block Ford used an oil pressure switch to cut fuel if the engine didn't start after a short period of cranking; after that, it ignored the oil pressure signal. (the 727 wasn't a particularly sophisticated ECM by modern standards) I visualized getting the car upside-down in a crash, perhaps knocked senseless, with the engine happily running inverted, which it could do for quite some time even without oil pressure, as the surge tank would keep it from running out of fuel immediately. The Ford "sensor" was just a ball, cup, and spring, and if you whacked it hard enough, the ball would shift to the side and break the circuit. It took a pretty powerful whack to unseat the ball. I mounted it on the console at the base of the shifter so I could reach it easily if I ever needed to reset it.

Author:  Bent Wrench [ July 13, 2014, 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

To mount the motor as low as possible in the frame one might need to take advantage of the products made for the Dwarf Car crowd.
They have shallow oil sumps and swinging pickups to maintain oil supply during high lateral loading caused by car install.

They also have ready made wire harnesses (for the popular motors) that simplify of most electrical issues.
You might also find exhaust that will work.

Author:  jdaley [ October 11, 2014, 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

gr8 information

Author:  FlightService [ May 30, 2016, 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bike motor into a car: Some pointers for conversion

The design on the GL1500 fuel shut off was liquid filled. The liquid caused the case to become porous due to a chemical interaction allowing the liquid to sweat out and causing the on pendulum sensor inside to fall into the shut off position in long shallow curves.

Honda had a big recal to swap them.

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