LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently November 18, 2019, 8:08 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: March 4, 2017, 9:53 am
Posts: 16
Hi, trying to sort out my front suspension. I see a lot of images of builders using what looks like a threaded tie rod as an upper or lower ball joint on the spindle, however I can't find what this part is.
I'm using the mustang 2 spindles with the 7 degree taper.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 12:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 8, 2014, 10:47 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Cornholio OR "Where the magic happens"
Something rattling around in my head says someone used an Econoline tie rod end.

However I don't know what year or what tie rod position the joints come from.

There is also size to consider E100 E150 or E250.

Find a Moog picture book and try some different numbers.

Bribe your parts guy to let you plow through his inventory?

_________________
I don't know who I am, when I am somebody else.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 1:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 22, 2010, 4:43 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Livermore, Calif.
This site may be able to help.

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_outer_tie_rod_ends.asp

_________________
Build log http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16510


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 4:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: March 4, 2017, 9:53 am
Posts: 16
Bent Wrench wrote:
Something rattling around in my head says someone used an Econoline tie rod end.

However I don't know what year or what tie rod position the joints come from.

There is also size to consider E100 E150 or E250.

Find a Moog picture book and try some different numbers.

Bribe your parts guy to let you plow through his inventory?


This is what i was thinking. I just wasn't sure if the tie rod was a special aftermarket part or OEM parts being repurposed.

Thanks for your input.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 4:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: March 4, 2017, 9:53 am
Posts: 16
RoyzMG wrote:


Excellent resource. Thanks.

After measuring the taper as described on the link, and searching, several options showed up. A few of them looked compact and stout enough. now it should be a matter of going to the parts store with my spindles and finding one that will work. Assuming the range of motion for a tie-rod and a ball joint are comparable. Looks like I'll need a 7/8-18 tap, ugh. This stuff is fun.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 4:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 17, 2010, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1446
Location: Gainesville, Mo.
MOOG ES2074R is a popular one if you're using Miata front spindles!

_________________
Mike - Read my story at http://twinlakesseven.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 4, 2017, 7:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 22, 2010, 4:43 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Livermore, Calif.
Quote:
After measuring the taper as described on the link, and searching, several options showed up. A few of them looked compact and stout enough. now it should be a matter of going to the parts store with my spindles and finding one that will work. Assuming the range of motion for a tie-rod and a ball joint are comparable. Looks like I'll need a 7/8-18 tap, ugh. This stuff is fun.



Did you really mean 7/8" - 18 or possibly 7/8" - 9 (course) or 7/8" - 14 (fine)? Why not just buy a hex coupling like shown from McMaster Carr and build from there?

https://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-coupling-nuts/=16m3vnf

Cheers,
Roy

_________________
Build log http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16510


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 5, 2017, 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: March 4, 2017, 9:53 am
Posts: 16
RoyzMG wrote:
Quote:
After measuring the taper as described on the link, and searching, several options showed up. A few of them looked compact and stout enough. now it should be a matter of going to the parts store with my spindles and finding one that will work. Assuming the range of motion for a tie-rod and a ball joint are comparable. Looks like I'll need a 7/8-18 tap, ugh. This stuff is fun.



Did you really mean 7/8" - 18 or possibly 7/8" - 9 (course) or 7/8" - 14 (fine)? Why not just buy a hex coupling like shown from McMaster Carr and build from there?

https://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-coupling-nuts/=16m3vnf

Cheers,
Roy


the Moog website lists the rod thread size as 7/8- 18, it could be a typo. Or it could be a non-standard size. I checked eBay there are 7/8-18 taps. I will have to wait until I have the actual parts in hand so i can measure the thread pitch. Hex coupling is a good idea, it would save a lot of work. But McMaster doesn't have the odd 18 thread size. I'll see if i can't swing by the napa today and grab one of the tie rod ends thats on my shortlist. Outers from a 70s to 90s Dodge van look like they may be a good fit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 5, 2017, 5:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 28, 2010, 7:53 am
Posts: 213
i used ES150R (MOOG #) - its a tie rod end for both GM and Ford in the 1950/60s. 3/4 shank, 7* taper (despite sone internet info saying 10*) You might need to ream your spindles to get the correct depth - i used solstice spindles and had to ream quite a bit. I used the spiral reamer from XKUT on Ebay in my bridgeport - made a fixture to hold the spindle. Taper reaming requires a lot of pressure b/c a large area is being cut at once. Gets really hot too - lots of lube! Dont be afraid to try a practice piece to figure out the depth. Once i determined the depth, i wrapped a piece of masking tape on the reamer.

7* is also referred to as 1-1/2"/foot

Finally- you should use a class 3A fit for your thread fit into the tube - involves using a slightly smaller drill prior to tapping and is a therefore a little harder to tap.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 5, 2017, 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: March 4, 2017, 9:53 am
Posts: 16
Ok, the plot thickens.... the 7/8 18 thread size is ubiquitous on domestic trucks and vans, even my 79 f100 4x4 uses it. I went to my two main parts shops hear in Charlotte with 4 Moog part #'s in hand. All they had in stock was ES2234R for a 3/4 ton suburban. The threads on the stud where to large for the spindle... but not by much, so I bought one it was $18. Figured I could make it work. This is where it gets interesting.... I found a taper calculator online and entered the dimensions for the various ball joint studs, I wound up with a range from 5.9 degrees to 7.4 degrees. Hell the mustang 2 spindles worked out to 6.5 degrees. This led me to research class of fit for tapered holes, I couldn't find much online and my machinery's hand book really only had specifications for stuff like Morris tapper shanks and what not. Further searching online I discovered the reamer for the mustang 2, 7 degree spindles from speedway is actually 1.5" taper per foot. I think there must just be really loose tolerances on these things. As long as the big end of the taper contacts metal before the small end, or heaven forbid the bolt, it should work. I'll see if they have a 1.5" taper reamer at work tomorrow and perform an experiment on some scrap plate.

By the way also took the Wife to the lake, mowed the lawn, and fixed the neighbors garbage disposal, so I'm not obsessed with this at all.... right? :|


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 5, 2017, 7:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: March 4, 2017, 9:53 am
Posts: 16
Sean in CT wrote:
i used ES150R (MOOG #) - its a tie rod end for both GM and Ford in the 1950/60s. 3/4 shank, 7* taper (despite sone internet info saying 10*) You might need to ream your spindles to get the correct depth - i used solstice spindles and had to ream quite a bit. I used the spiral reamer from XKUT on Ebay in my bridgeport - made a fixture to hold the spindle. Taper reaming requires a lot of pressure b/c a large area is being cut at once. Gets really hot too - lots of lube! Dont be afraid to try a practice piece to figure out the depth. Once i determined the depth, i wrapped a piece of masking tape on the reamer.

7* is also referred to as 1-1/2"/foot

Finally- you should use a class 3A fit for your thread fit into the tube - involves using a slightly smaller drill prior to tapping and is a therefore a little harder to tap.


All really great advice. I'll check out that TRE. I do like the suburban TRE though, it looks right and, is cheep and available. (hey that sums up everything in my world). Thanks, beer time! :cheers:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 6, 2017, 9:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
Posts: 1621
Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
I also used the ES150R tie rod ends, which I bought from Auto Zone. "Buttt" :( Check both tie rods ends before walking out of the auto parts store. The two tie rod ends I got where slightly different. Both in the same packaging but when I got home one rod end was longer and the other rod end did not have the threads cut the full lenght. My guess is two different suppliers, for these common high demand parts. Dave W


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY