LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently June 21, 2018, 4:12 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 22, 2018, 12:28 am 
Offline
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: April 5, 2008, 2:25 am
Posts: 4634
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
I don't know if this is snake oil, but if not there seems to be a myriad of ways this might help builders out, if only to improve the looks of a few things or fill cracks. Has anyone tried this?

https://www.facebook.com/combinesharves ... 823439219/

https://www.aluminumrepair.com/

I've never brazed anything. I've seen it done but the couple of times I tried it were, shall we say, less than successful and since we were in a working shop and we had little call for it, no one invested the time in teaching me.

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 22, 2018, 11:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3434
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
It certainly is interesting. I found a "backdoor" to the videos where you don't have to go through Facebook and leave your e-mail address. It's here ==> https://www.aluminumrepair.com/video-of-actual-repairs/

If true, making simple structures out of aluminum sheet (assuming the rods don't cost a fortune) could definitely be of use to us in Locost World. There are some interesting videos of repairs being made to aluminum parts too. I guess someone will just have to try it out and let us know. Getting pricing info might be the first step to take.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 3:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 4, 2011, 6:19 pm
Posts: 687
$65.00 and up
https://www.aluminumrepair.com/buy-now-hts-2000/

_________________
Bill H
Winnipeg, MB, Canada


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 9:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
Posts: 2692
Location: Summerville, SC
The rods are pricey. My local Ace Hardware had them. I gave it a shot and not impressed with t he results. The adhesion was not god at all. I built a simple frame that cracked in 5 minutes on the road. Some reinforced brackets suffered the same failure of adhesion cracking.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 9:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2011, 12:38 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Akron, NY
There are quite a few different manufacturers and they all claim to be different but I don't know how true that is. These rods are available at Harbor Freight if you really want to mess around with them. You have to keep in mind that this is brazing not welding so if you want a strong joint you need to be thinking things like lap joints and large surface areas for maximum strength. You cant just make a butt joint like regular welding and expect it to have any strength. Cleanliness is next you really need a freshly ground surface and any anodizing needs to be removed (most of your hardware store aluminum shapes are clear anodized). Wire bush the surface with a stainless steel brush and then start heating. If it is possible I would brush the surface again after heating just before applying the brazing rod for the best chance of success. This rod is self fluxing it will not tolerate dirt and oxides even if the manufacture claims otherwise. I wouldn't recommend them for anything structural or anything that sees a lot of vibration and fatigue.

https://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece-l ... 44810.html


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3434
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Hmmmm, it's not sounding too good for what I immediately thought of when I saw it. I was thinking an aluminum gas tank done by folding with overlapping seams. The end pieces of the tank would be more like a "T" joint, however.

Given the uncertainty of long term adhesion, that sound like a bad idea now. Shoot!

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 12:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 9, 2016, 8:46 am
Posts: 311
Location: New Jersey
WelderLee wrote:
There are quite a few different manufacturers and they all claim to be different but I don't know how true that is. These rods are available at Harbor Freight if you really want to mess around with them. You have to keep in mind that this is brazing not welding so if you want a strong joint you need to be thinking things like lap joints and large surface areas for maximum strength. You cant just make a butt joint like regular welding and expect it to have any strength. Cleanliness is next you really need a freshly ground surface and any anodizing needs to be removed (most of your hardware store aluminum shapes are clear anodized). Wire bush the surface with a stainless steel brush and then start heating. If it is possible I would brush the surface again after heating just before applying the brazing rod for the best chance of success. This rod is self fluxing it will not tolerate dirt and oxides even if the manufacture claims otherwise. I wouldn't recommend them for anything structural or anything that sees a lot of vibration and fatigue.

https://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece-l ... 44810.html



I'll just add this to WelderLees comment: Get yourself some a/c aluminum coil cleaner from your local supply house. Rector Seal has "Renewz", a non-acid (Caustic) coil cleaner that is a somewhat milder version of the stuff we use for welding aluminum. It is nasty stuff so wear gloves and safety glasses / face shield when using it. Degrease, wire brush, dip in aluminum cleaner, rinse, dry. Then braze.

_________________
Dismantalus, Fabricatus, Assemblus.....
Certified Welder, Certified Welding Inspector, Full Time Car Freak...In New Jersey no less!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 1:28 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5864
Location: SoCal
As a kid I remember seeing aluminum "welding" being demo'd at the county fair, with a lot of skeptical older adults standing around, and infrequent buyers. Of course the guy made it look easy, but as noted above, it's not welded, more like brazing/soldering. As long as it's treated as such, it should be okay. For a fuel tank I'd worry about the weight of the fuel flexing the seams and work-hardening, but if the rod is cheap (which apparently it's not) it would be okay to have on the shelf as "just in case."

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 1:28 pm 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7545
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
I was thinking an aluminum gas tank done by folding with overlapping seams.


I would hesitate to experiment too much with a gas tank. This is a TIG job. Many years ago I had a problem on my formula car. There was something loose and rattling around in my dry sump oil tank. That seemed appalling! :rofl: My mechanic friend sawed the entire tank in half, including I imagine some internal tubing and then found the problem and welded all the pieces back together again. I was sort of amazed, but that's what good about TIG and aluminum.

That was 30 years ago and it's still working just fine.

I think these rods are mostly zinc, which is neither here no there I suppose. People have pushed these rods for decades. They recommend scraping the work with the rod to remove oxide under the melted puddle as you go along.

I dont know how you could keep oxide off a lapped joint, it forms nearly as quickly as you can clean it off. When I have epoxied aluminum I coat the cleaned surface with mixed epoxy and then wet sand it.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
Posts: 4592
Location: West Chicago,IL
KB58 wrote:
As a kid I remember seeing aluminum "welding" being demo'd at the county fair, with a lot of skeptical older adults standing around, and infrequent buyers. Of course the guy made it look easy, but as noted above, it's not welded, more like brazing/soldering. As long as it's treated as such, it should be okay. For a fuel tank I'd worry about the weight of the fuel flexing the seams and work-hardening, but if the rod is cheap (which apparently it's not) it would be okay to have on the shelf as "just in case."
I've seen those county fair demos where they punched holes in pop cans then soldered them closed. SOme years back, I actually bought a pound of them and put them in my stash. Maybe 15 years ago, I dropped a cast aluminum cased circular saw. It cracked. I brought out the soldering rods and grooved out the cracks, then soldered the cracks closed. That saw ran up until I used it to cut some concrete and the bearings just disintegrated.

It has it's purposes. Not sure that I would trust it for structural purposes though.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my active Cushman Truckster resurrection log: over HERE
or my archival Locost build log: over HERE


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 23, 2018, 9:20 pm 
Offline
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: April 5, 2008, 2:25 am
Posts: 4634
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
I was thinking they might be useful for those guys who have had to modify transmission housings to fit starters or to fill gouges or big cracks, adding a bolt flange or something along those lines. I wasn't thinking of actually building a car with it

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 24, 2018, 2:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
Posts: 1833
Location: BC, Canada. eh?
As far as making a gas tank with overlapping seams is concerned, I believe aircraft tanks are simply made with a structural adhesive & rivets. Might be cheaper & easier, particularly given the cost of aluminum (and errors) these days...

_________________
Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 25, 2018, 9:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: January 31, 2012, 12:49 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Louisville KY
zetec7 wrote:
As far as making a gas tank with overlapping seams is concerned, I believe aircraft tanks are simply made with a structural adhesive & rivets. Might be cheaper & easier, particularly given the cost of aluminum (and errors) these days...


Don't they have an internal bladder tho?

_________________
***************
Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.
Girlfriend thinks I'm nuts for building this....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 25, 2018, 9:42 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5864
Location: SoCal
geek49203 wrote:
zetec7 wrote:
As far as making a gas tank with overlapping seams is concerned, I believe aircraft tanks are simply made with a structural adhesive & rivets. Might be cheaper & easier, particularly given the cost of aluminum (and errors) these days...


Don't they have an internal bladder tho?

Nope.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Aluminum repair
PostPosted: January 26, 2018, 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
Posts: 1833
Location: BC, Canada. eh?
I know a fellow here in Victoria who made his tank with nothing but rivets & adhesive sealant (no bladder). He built it many years ago, and it's never leaked. He has a lot of buddies who are home- built aircraft enthusiasts, and they helped him build the tank. When he showed it to me, I thought "Well, THAT'S gonna leak like a sieve!", but apparently, this is an accepted method of making airplane tanks...

_________________
Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY