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PostPosted: March 23, 2014, 10:54 am 
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stangme1990 wrote:
KahunaGrande wrote:
Thanks for the reply cheapracer.

By dangerously low I assume you mean in terms of other drivers being able to see/avoid the vehicle, which I have given some thought to.

I am familiar with reversetrike.com, some good stuff there, but this site has far greater resources and fits in well with the roll-your-own concept I am examining - especially if I were more interested in an exo-style machine like Pook has been building.

The leaning TMW concept seems pretty well executed but at $10-12K PLUS a high-dollar donor is not at all within the plan. Looks neat though.

The Valk3 and Stealth11 designs are closer to what I was thinking if basing the project on an existing bike rather than just a motor/tranny combo.


To date I have 33k on the Stealth11, 36k on the Valk3 and my newest built the GLRT (gl1800rt) has just 10k. Structurally they are in fine shape and the Valk3 has proven it's reliability on cross country roads, gravel and the like. The GL made it's maiden voyage to Sturgis last summer and was a fantastic hit. So much so I pulled a patent on the build and formed Endeavor which will license this product.
I have designed adapters for the big Honda's and Harley so far and have verified this universal kit will fit any motorcycle without doing any MC frame modifications. We are currently doing a market prep and hope to be in production later this year.
I have also just recently completely reworked the Valk3 into the new generic multi-frame design, which is the concept and the patented idea. I also have several trademarks and copyrights associated with this build.

www.ido-endeavor.com

It would be nice to know how the Valk3 and Stealth11 have been holding up, miles, problems, etc. Just to make sure that the "add-on" front end is durable and safe. I really like the TriRod with the low aggressive stance.

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PostPosted: April 22, 2014, 8:28 pm 
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About 15 years ago, a guy showed up at the AHA Kit-Car show at Knotts Berry Farm with a reverse trike that looked like a sand rail with a Honda 750 grafted on behind the seats. Fully licensed in California, the owner looked like he was having a great time!

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PostPosted: April 22, 2014, 8:35 pm 
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stangme1990 wrote:
KahunaGrande wrote:
Thanks for the reply cheapracer.

By dangerously low I assume you mean in terms of other drivers being able to see/avoid the vehicle, which I have given some thought to.

I am familiar with reversetrike.com, some good stuff there, but this site has far greater resources and fits in well with the roll-your-own concept I am examining - especially if I were more interested in an exo-style machine like Pook has been building.

The leaning TMW concept seems pretty well executed but at $10-12K PLUS a high-dollar donor is not at all within the plan. Looks neat though.

The Valk3 and Stealth11 designs are closer to what I was thinking if basing the project on an existing bike rather than just a motor/tranny combo.


It would be nice to know how the Valk3 and Stealth11 have been holding up, miles, problems, etc. Just to make sure that the "add-on" front end is durable and safe. I really like the TriRod with the low aggressive stance.


I have done three conversions so far - Stealth11, Valk3 and my GL1800 (GLRT) I am coming up on 80k miles in R&D and so far not a hitch. I am on my 5th generation build as R&D is like rust - it never sleeps.

May 2nd and 3rd I will be displaying the GLRT and Valk3 at the MPLS convention center inventor expo. I have 3 patents, 2 trademarks and several copyrights on these products. For more info just check out my webpage at www.ido-endeavor.com

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PostPosted: April 26, 2014, 6:12 am 
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Endeavor, why don't you put your legal information in the signature, so it is posted every time and it won't sound like you are just here to make sales.

It doesn't prevent people from making their own bolt-on front suspension for a bike.

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PostPosted: April 26, 2014, 10:04 am 
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I am here to gather information and ideas as the R&D process never stops. I am not selling to the general population, my interests are more inline with licensing not direct sales. Some of the information posted on this site has already been implemented in the 5th generation build, most notably the spindle layout and tie-rod arrangements.
I have a saying "the more you learn the less you know" and this is exactly true. I am just getting to the expert stage but realize there is so much more yet to discover.

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PostPosted: April 26, 2014, 12:05 pm 
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My mistake. Thanks for the clarification and welcome to the forum. :cheers:

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PostPosted: April 26, 2014, 2:01 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
My mistake. Thanks for the clarification and welcome to the forum. :cheers:



Not a problem - something pertaining to bump steer. I recently changed from a small spindle brake setup to a somewhat bigger unit which is the Mustang II 2" drop spindles. Sway and counter lean in the corners is cut to near zero due to the wider spacing of the A-arms (7.5 " vs 6") however the tie rods were no longer parallel with the arms. I ended up with a mild case of bump steer. I fabricated a set of risers which now has the rods parallel again and the bs is all gone and the change has been another advancement toward production ready. Braking is much improved and I can now actually squeak the tires on tar.

Like I said, good info on this board - Thank you

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PostPosted: July 24, 2014, 10:56 pm 
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I normally reserve comments regarding changes to design until testing and verification have been completed. I see so many post where something is changed and the results are Unbelievably good. However once the mental aspects are mellowed the change probably resulted in no change or a change for the worse.
In this case the change was quite dramatic and expected but not to the current degree. I went from a set of federal 165x55x15 tires to continental 165x60x15 tires. This did three things, first it set the offset to center of tire rather than slightly inside, second it changed the trail to lighten steering and third it softened the ride significantly. I guess a forth was the tires are much quieter also.
I have experienced some poor results with certain tire designs. Most notably the tendency to ride rough and follow contours in the roadway to an undesirable degree. The Federal tires were really quite bad in those respects.

I am totally surprised and delighted at this last change as it took me from almost ready for manufacture to totally set and at the last configuration prior to allowing potential manufactures a test ride under all conditions.

I also did some speed trials and can vouch for the ability of this design to keep up and surpass standard two wheel designs in corners and under windy conditions.

Funny how just tires could prompt such a great conclusion to the 80,000 miles and 5 years of R&D

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PostPosted: October 11, 2014, 9:19 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Set up to understeer with narrow front tires.
Wide track.
Long wheelbase. When a wheel comes up in a turn, it will rotate about a line between the other two wheels.
Forward CG.
Front wheel drive.

If your happy with the Canam's cornering, then there is no handling downside.

See link for the Xprize waltz, a slolom at 45 mph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF34Rpqrk-I


To be true for the most part this is incorrect. You never want understeer and by nature a 2-1 configuration will have a slight oversteer which is correct. It's not so much the width of the track or length but rather the ratio of these two measurements that will create stability. Front wheel drive is death to proper corning as it induces understeer.

Key elements are wheel placement ratio, proper caster angle and don't forget aerodynamics. the front end profile must be kept to a minimum in order to control the air flow as a large enclosure up front (like the R-18) will cause serious instability at speed and under windy conditions. And of course a stiff anti-sway bar is a must.

In general a 2-1 configuration like this will out perform most standard motorcycles in the corners and this has been proven many times. Polaris has proven 2-1 is stable and can perform and so have many others who stick to the formula.

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PostPosted: October 11, 2014, 5:39 pm 
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Endeavor wrote:
...this is incorrect... never want understeer...by nature a 2-1 configuration will have a slight oversteer which is correct...Front wheel drive is death to proper corning as it induces understeer...the front end profile must be kept to a minimum...a large enclosure up front (like the R-18) will cause serious instability...And of course a stiff anti-sway bar is a must.
And my favorite:
Endeavor wrote:
In general a 2-1 configuration like this will out perform most standard motorcycles in the corners and this has been proven many times.
Mr. Endeavor, you and I have to be particularly careful about writing like we're the Burning Bush, because we have vested interest in readers on this forum believing us, and trusting us as experts. I think the best way to achieve that is to credit our sources (when we say something is a fact) and clarify our reasoning (when we say we have a belief). When you and I say that somebody else here is wrong, we should probably back it up (preferably using logic; c'mon, "by nature"?*).

BTW, I'm a big fan of the 2F1R configuration (and can explain why) but I've never seen any proof that it outperforms 1F1R (standard motorcycles) in corners. If by 'proof' you mean...
Endeavor wrote:
I also did some speed trials and can vouch for the ability of this design to keep up and surpass standard two wheel designs in corners and under windy conditions.
...some reference to the particular standard two wheel designs you surpassed, and the qualifications (and intentions) of the riders, would add credibility to your claim.
Endeavor wrote:
Polaris has proven 2-1 is stable and can perform and so have many others who stick to the formula.
So what's the formula? I understand you have a commercial enterprise going on here, and your intention is to license your knowledge, so if the formula is proprietary, just say so and I (at least) won't bug you further. But if you have actual knowledge you're willing to share, there are lots of three wheeler folks here who would love to have the 2F1R stability and performance formula, backed by the data it is based on.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

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PostPosted: October 11, 2014, 9:02 pm 
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Endeavor wrote:
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Set up to understeer with narrow front tires.
Wide track.
Long wheelbase. When a wheel comes up in a turn, it will rotate about a line between the other two wheels.
Forward CG.
Front wheel drive.

If your happy with the Canam's cornering, then there is no handling downside.

See link for the Xprize waltz, a slolom at 45 mph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF34Rpqrk-I


To be true for the most part this is incorrect. You never want understeer and by nature a 2-1 configuration will have a slight oversteer which is correct. It's not so much the width of the track or length but rather the ratio of these two measurements that will create stability. Front wheel drive is death to proper corning as it induces understeer.

Key elements are wheel placement ratio, proper caster angle and don't forget aerodynamics. the front end profile must be kept to a minimum in order to control the air flow as a large enclosure up front (like the R-18) will cause serious instability at speed and under windy conditions. And of course a stiff anti-sway bar is a must.

In general a 2-1 configuration like this will out perform most standard motorcycles in the corners and this has been proven many times. Polaris has proven 2-1 is stable and can perform and so have many others who stick to the formula.


I didn't read your post right away thinking it was yet another commercial, but then I saw that Jack had posted. I would say congratulations on having a contrary opinion, but it appears you’re just dumping on any opinion that doesn't support your endeavor. I understand. That’s just good salesmanship.

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PostPosted: October 11, 2014, 11:22 pm 
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No I am not just dumping or posting a commercial. I may not have responded in the most graceful manor though.
Understeer is certainly something which should be avoided as any race car driver will agree. The ratio is something of a secret which I can't share without an NDA but it took me almost 5 years to get that one right.
There are numerous tests and articles written by engineers related to the outstanding handling characteristics of a 2-1 configuration. Good youtube examples are tests on the slingshot, viper, T-rex and others.
This summer I had the opportunity to speak with a retired NASA scientist by the name Albert Muller who was one of Chuck Yeagars design engineers. He offers some information pertaining to aerodynamics and how to test for proper airflow without using a wind tunnel. Quite simple he said "drive it in the rain and see where the water goes"
His concern with the design in general was the fact that a large frontal area will place the center of force ahead of the center of mass. This would cause instability at speed similar to what Burt Munro experienced.
So there is a bit of science to the creation and all factors have to fit in a gentle balance.

Some articles related

http://papers.sae.org/820140/
http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm

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PostPosted: October 12, 2014, 11:37 am 
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Do you seriously think your connections and experiences are more impressive than those of anyone else on this forum? Do you think you know who we are?

I am not interested in going over this again just because the thousands of discussions on this site (prior to your 11 posts) have no value to you. It is apparent that you are unaware of those relevant discussions.

Believe what you will and share what you think, but please do not suppress the opinions of others.

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PostPosted: October 12, 2014, 12:01 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Do you seriously think your connections and experiences are more impressive than those of anyone else on this forum? Do you think you know who we are?

I am not interested in going over this again just because the thousands of discussions on this site (prior to your 11 posts) have no value to you. It is apparent that you are unaware of those relevant discussions.

Believe what you will and share what you think, but please do not suppress the opinions of others.


Well first as you say opinions. Opinions are important as they form the starting point and initiate further study. However one must include and take into account physics and the facts discovered by others who have devoted much time and effort into the nether regions of design.
All opinions have value and all should be at least considered true or false. However I value the opinions of NASA scientists and engineers in the motorsport fields above opinions expressed by tinkers, although as an open minded person I also value those.
I am sorry you do not feel the same way but that is your right.

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PostPosted: October 12, 2014, 12:45 pm 
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So your answer is yes. :lol:

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