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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 9:25 am 
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A cool way to use a volt meter is to measure voltage drops across connections.

For example, put one lead right on the battery + terminal and the other right on the cable connector that's attached to that same terminal. At rest, the voltmeter will read zero but when you crank the engine, around 100 amps flows through the wires. If there's a poor electrical connection, it'll show itself in the form of a voltage drop across what appeared to be a good connection. There will always be some drop across the connection, but it should be on the order of a fraction of a volt.

The above is a great way to measure the consequences of high current flow without the danger of damaging the meter.

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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 9:47 am 
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KB58 wrote:
A cool way to use a volt meter is to measure voltage drops across connections.

For example, put one lead right on the battery + terminal and the other right on the cable connector that's attached to that same terminal. At rest, the voltmeter will read zero but when you crank the engine, around 100 amps flows through the wires. If there's a poor electrical connection, it'll show itself in the form of a voltage drop across what appeared to be a good connection. There will always be some drop across the connection, but it should be on the order of a fraction of a volt.

The above is a great way to measure the consequences of high current flow without the danger of damaging the meter.


Sure but the engine doesn't crank. I push the start button and the starter solenoid it just clicks once but the lights dim.

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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 3:22 pm 
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If the solenoid clicks once, then it sounds like it is pulling in and holding. Have you tried bypassing the solenoid to the starter? If The starter turns, then it is a good chance that the contacts in the solenoid are fried. The procedure and precautions are in the link posted above (back 1 page).
Walt


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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 3:37 pm 
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waltj wrote:
If the solenoid clicks once, then it sounds like it is pulling in and holding. Have you tried bypassing the solenoid to the starter? If The starter turns, then it is a good chance that the contacts in the solenoid are fried. The procedure and precautions are in the link posted above (back 1 page).
Walt


Not yet since they are not easy to get to (buried in the starter) and because of the fact that i have a new one coming anyway. Its way easier to just put a new one on.

I also had the battery tested today from two different shops and both said the battery is good. So that's one thing eliminated. Either starter or wiring now and i am leaning towards the starter.

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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 5:44 pm 
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mjalaly wrote:
KB58 wrote:
A cool way to use a volt meter is to measure voltage drops across connections.

For example, put one lead right on the battery + terminal and the other right on the cable connector that's attached to that same terminal. At rest, the voltmeter will read zero but when you crank the engine, around 100 amps flows through the wires. If there's a poor electrical connection, it'll show itself in the form of a voltage drop across what appeared to be a good connection. There will always be some drop across the connection, but it should be on the order of a fraction of a volt.

The above is a great way to measure the consequences of high current flow without the danger of damaging the meter.


Sure but the engine doesn't crank. I push the start button and the starter solenoid it just clicks once but the lights dim.

That tells me either there's a poor connection between the battery and starter, or the starter's drawing so much current that it's dragging the battery down. Since the battery tested good, that's out. Hopefully it's just a bad starter... and not a seized engine.

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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 6:29 pm 
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Or bad cables.

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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 7:43 pm 
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Or a dirty connection

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PostPosted: August 1, 2017, 8:24 pm 
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Engine isn't seised for sure. I runs great and i can put it into gear and it moves fine. Did it yesterday to make sure the starter gear wasn't in a weird spot and causing issues

The connections are also very clean along with the cables.

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PostPosted: August 3, 2017, 10:30 am 
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Bahhhh!!! I'm about to lose my [PooPoo] over this starting thing.

So I installed the new starter which looked a bit different but the honda guys say that is fine (the nose is a bit longer). Pushed the button and nothing! No click, noise etc.

I measured 12v at the main starter connection and verified that I was getting voltage when the start button is pressed and that the starter is grounded and that is all good. Just for the hell of it I took the switch off and touched the two wires together and still nothing. Checked all of the connections again. Removed and reattached all of them and still nothing. Then I added an extra ground to the starter and also ran a jumper cable from the battery ground all the way back to the rear of the chassis just to make sure I had a good ground and still nothing. The lights do dim when the button is pressed so its doing something.

After about an hour of just messing with stuff (seriously wtf... its a battery, switch, starter and two cables) I decided just for the [PooPoo] of it to leave everything as is except move the cables to the old starter, which was now not connected to the engine, and the damn gear popped out and started spinning! Seriously WTF?!

The only thing I can think of on the old starter is that it may not have enough torque to move the flywheel. I have no clue what the new starter issue is....

here is a comparison of the two starter differences. Notice the snout is a longer but again, any b series starter should work. Not my pic its from Honda tech
Attachment:
DSC02745.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007X ... UTF8&psc=1

here are the starter connections
1) big red cable goes straight to the battery
2) small red cable goes to the ignition switch
3) white cable goes to the alternator

Attachment:
20170802_192526.jpg


battery connections
1) top red cable goes to the main fuse then kill switch
2) red one under the gold plate goes right to the starter
3) black is ground straight to the chassis below the battery

Attachment:
20170802_192540.jpg


I have not removed the new starter and checked that it works but it does pull power when I push the button. I am also going to rotate the engine by hand again just to make sure it isn't seized but there is absolute no reason to think it would be since it started fine last week. I did an oil change and that looked great as well. I know a blown/seized motor.... had a few already.

I'm kind of lost.


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PostPosted: August 3, 2017, 12:25 pm 
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- Take the spark plugs out and try turning it over. That way you know there is no real load on the starter unless the motor is seized or very tight.

- Try eliminating the starter switch all together, take the wire from the start terminal on the starter and apply +12V directly to it

I was going to say the ground at the batter or the engine is poor, but you've already tried a dedicated ground to the starter motor.


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PostPosted: August 3, 2017, 3:55 pm 
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cs3tcr wrote:
- Take the spark plugs out and try turning it over. That way you know there is no real load on the starter unless the motor is seized or very tight.


yeah I am going to try that later today just to make sure

cs3tcr wrote:
Try eliminating the starter switch all together, take the wire from the start terminal on the starter and apply +12V directly to it


I did that by just shorting the wires to the switch together and that didn't do anything.


Tonight I plan on removing the new starter and doing the same off the chassis test and turning the engine by hand to make sure everything is ok. After that I am a bit lost. I am pretty sure the flywheel has all of its teeth and it not i would at least herd the starter just spinning away.

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PostPosted: August 3, 2017, 10:04 pm 
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Finally got it working!!!

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PostPosted: August 3, 2017, 10:31 pm 
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How?

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PostPosted: August 3, 2017, 10:42 pm 
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Yeah don't skip over the "how" else no one learns anything.

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PostPosted: August 4, 2017, 9:09 am 
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As a precursor, I was already frustrated with the suspension I designed on another car. Damn CAD wheel model doesn't match the rear wheel and the lower control arm is touching. Booooooo. Should be really sick when fixed...

Attachment:
20170728_150439.jpg

Attachment:
20170728_151004.jpg

Attachment:
523483188.jpg

Attachment:
523483210.jpg






But I am digressing so here is what happened (Lots of bad writing/English and the word "so" ahead and I'm not responsible for you getting mad)




I took the new starter off but left the wiring in place, pushed the switch and it crawled for a sec or two but that was it. I thought maybe the battery was drained but no, it was fine according to the charger. So I took the starter completely off moved it to the battery with new connections and bam, it moved.

At that point i was more confused so i hooked up the older starter the same way and it ran as well. Now I was thinking the problem only arises when it is mounted in on the engine. With the wires disconnected, measure the the starter main wire, 12v and measured the starter switch wire (button pressed), 12v. Then I did the same test with the wires connected but not the alternator wire and guess what!!!! Nada.

So I put it back on the engine and tried it again... nada. Added two grounds... nada. I also removed one wire from the switch and touched it to the other wire on the switch and still nothing. WTF? I kicked the car a bit nada. Ate some dinner and that didn't help either.

I was lost so I took off my frustration pants and put my big boy pants on and re-tested everything again. I checked the ground and it was good. I checked the main wire, 12v probed the starter wire from the back of the terminal and 5v.

Attachment:
20170803_183310.jpg


Hubbbbaaaa whaaaaaat? (that's from "the pigeon finds a hot dog" book, its good! Go read it!)

So I pulled that wire off, crimped on a new connector checked that the voltage was 12v and placed it back on the solenoid end. I closed my eyes, all excited of course and pushed the start button and.... still not working!!! So much pain, and anger and depression running though my body at this point like you are staring down the guy who causes you to crash on the track. I pretty much lost my [PooPoo] at that point but continued once I cooled off.

I then tested the connection again while connected to the starter and it read 5v again when the button was pressed. Not cool. I decided to run a wire all the way from the front of the car to the starter eliminating the wire, switch, etc and boooommmm she started right up! Did it a second time and it started right up.

So there is something up with that wire and maybe the switch. I don't know why the voltage is changing though and that's weird. I am thinking that maybe the wire is shorting somewhere (could be the drain too!) but i need to take the floor off and look at it.

THE PLAN:
Run a new wire from the starter directly to the switch and see if it starts. If it if does not start then it is a switch issue. This should work since I was manually touching the wires together however, one wire was always left on the switch while touching it with another. From there it should be obvious.


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