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PostPosted: July 5, 2017, 10:54 pm 
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Yeah it's a stock housing.

I tried to do a vacuum fill but when I started to engine, bubbles still came out since the tube slipped when filling. So not a great sucess.

It worked a bit better this time but I think the new thermostat took longer to open or maybe it just seemed that way.

You can see in this pic that the dash cluster shows 95° at the radiator and the tablet is showing 208° at the engine.

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Once the thermostat decided to open then radiator temp when up to 175°

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After giving her some gas, the radiator temp went up to 198 and the ect went to 213°. The fan really didn't bring it down.

I am going to order 2x 7" fans to place on the back of the radiator as pullers because it seems like the pusher on the front is causing a lot of air to just bounce off the radiator instead of going through.

Tomorrow I am going to try to reburp the system again to see if it helps.

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 9:15 am 
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At this point I think a reality check is needed, using an old-fashioned mercury thermometer. This issue's been going on long enough that you need a known reference to prove whether the displayed numbers are correct. If they aren't, change the sensor; if they are, at least you can count on the numbers as fact.

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 9:53 am 
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Sure but where should it be measured from and how would two different sensors be incorrect? I do have a spare engine sensor that I can throw on and i think i also have another radiator sensor too (this one feeds the koso gauge).

at this point i think either the engine is causing more heat than normal (maybe something rubbing like bearings) or there is still air in the system. I didn't do a pressure test (since the vacuum was really good) so i will go back and do that just in case when i drain the system.. AGAIN

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 10:22 am 
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I find if there is any air at all in the system on my H22, that I get different readings between the ect, and Koso gauge, and my fan acts erratically. Once I get all the air out by squeezing hoses, using the bleeder, and checking front and rear caps, then everything works great.

I'd also recommend a fan from Derale or something like it. The first fan I used was similar to the one you have where it claims a high cfm (1000 or more), but only draws like 5-6 amps. I think they lie a bit with their specs. Once it was up to temp the fan never shut off and would barely keep up with idling in traffic. The new one I got from Derale is a 12" pusher that claims 2000cfm but draws over 23amps. When I first bench tested it, it almost took off out of my hands. This thing moves a lot of air. It was actually blowing the 30amp fuse on startup so I had to run it off a 40amp circuit. Now when the fan comes on it'll drop the temp from 100*C to 95*C in about 5 seconds. Whichever one you get, just make sure it draws a lot of current as that's a better way to gauge than the manufacturers claimed cfm.

https://derale.com/products/electric-fa ... -14-detail


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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 11:01 am 
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Yeah i can only run a 10" fan on the front as a pusher or a 9" fan in the rear as a puller. That is what i am thinking 2x 7" fans which would work better

Maybe pull the thermostat completely out (well leaving some for the seal)? hummmm....

https://www.arielatomchat.com/forums/thread1487-2.html



I am going to try another procedure tonight

1) Open port at top of the radiator and disconnect the thermostat hose
2) Tilt the car forward and fill with fluid until coolant flows from radiator port
3) cap radiator port
4) keep filling until fluid reaches thermostat port
5) reconnect thermostat hose
6) Start the engine and squeeze hoses until all the air burps out
7) once thermostat opens, squeeze hoses again to get all of the air out
8) turn car off
9) top off coolant
10) re bleed again

Maybe its over kill but it might do the trick.

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 11:55 am 
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on fans its hard to tell if vendors are lying or not... this sounds good but maybe too good?
http://www.shop.perma-cool.com/19127-St ... -19127.htm

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 1:03 pm 
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mjalaly wrote:
Yeah i can only run a 10" fan on the front as a pusher or a 9" fan in the rear as a puller. That is what i am thinking 2x 7" fans which would work better...

Dual fans look really cool but I'm not sure they move more air than one large one. Two 7" fans have a swept area of 77 sq. in, while a single 9" is 63", and the 10" is 78. What's perhaps more important is how much air is moved. Fans push/pull air based on a few things, including tip speed. A large fan will always move more air than two small ones. That said, if you have a fairly-rectangular radiator then yes, maybe two smaller fans would move more.

How's that for a non-answer?

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 1:04 pm 
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mjalaly wrote:
on fans its hard to tell if vendors are lying or not... this sounds good but maybe too good?
http://www.shop.perma-cool.com/19127-St ... -19127.htm

Has to be a typo.

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 2:48 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
mjalaly wrote:
Yeah i can only run a 10" fan on the front as a pusher or a 9" fan in the rear as a puller. That is what i am thinking 2x 7" fans which would work better...

Dual fans look really cool but I'm not sure they move more air than one large one. Two 7" fans have a swept area of 77 sq. in, while a single 9" is 63", and the 10" is 78. What's perhaps more important is how much air is moved. Fans push/pull air based on a few things, including tip speed. A large fan will always move more air than two small ones. That said, if you have a fairly-rectangular radiator then yes, maybe two smaller fans would move more.

How's that for a non-answer?



Yes you are correct (as usual) on the above i was just trying to get the best fit and CFM flow. A 9" with a shroud if necessary "should" be fine.

Also listening to Zac here (actually everybody) and I am planning on buying one of these. Is Spal, I trust them and it fits.

https://webstore.spalusa.com/content/fi ... 2_SPEC.pdf

I still think there is air in the system though :BH:

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PostPosted: July 6, 2017, 5:23 pm 
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(I think) I avoided the whole air bubble issue by building in a header tank. Its inputs come from: the top of the radiator, top of the cylinder head, and the turbo. Over a period of minutes after startup, trapped air rises to the highest points in the system and get sucked into the header tank, which has a bottom exit hose feeding into the water pump inlet.

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PostPosted: July 7, 2017, 9:41 am 
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Still having issues. My laser temp sensor couldn't read the water temp so i need to hit up the grocery store.

Here is what I did:

with the rear elevated, i filled the system, slowly, until the coolant came out of the radiator temp sensor port at the top. Plugged that, then I continued to fill the system until it wouldn't take anymore. I pumped the upper coolant hose at the head to get more air out then started up the car.

after start up the temp on the radiator said 93° and the engine temp started climbing. i kept pumping the hose as much as possible to get more air out but then i ran into the same issue. The coolant kept expanding out of the fill tank before the thermostat even opened. Finally i had to put the cap on and rev the engine before it the thermo would even open. That was at 203°.

so i continued but with the cap on since there was no way to remove it now that the thermostat was open. At this point the engine was around 203° and the radiator was around 185. with the fan on the radiator temp would come down slowly but never the engine temp. If I reved the engine for a bit, the radiator temp would go up and the engine would go up a few deg. When I let go and the radiator temp would start to fall but the engine temp would stay the same. Did the same thing again and the engine temp went up a few deg again. Pretty much i could rev the engine so that the radiator temp would read 200°+ and the engine temp stayed at 208°

I am lost at this point. the new fan should be here today so i will toss that on and see if it makes a difference.

What i am concerned with at this point is that the engine is creating more heat internally for some reason from too much friction. I have not tried to drive it since i have noticed this so i don't know how it behaves on the road.

I plan on replacing the fan today, the ECT sensor and the fan switch (just for the hell of it). I am stuck. heat soak???

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PostPosted: July 7, 2017, 10:49 am 
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Is the water pump a known-good part? Maybe more importantly, are you sure it's the right one for your engine? I know some Honda engines spin the opposite direction and if a pump like that is on yours, it would have the symptoms you're seeing.

As an (expensive) experiment, it would be interesting how the engine would act with an electric water pump.

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PostPosted: July 7, 2017, 11:29 am 
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yes its good and the correct one. The Kseries (spins the right way) water pump looks completely different.

i think a better and easier experiment would be to just leave the thermostat out... that's my next play after this one.

I read online that people have issues with aftermarket thermostats in the b16 so i am going to pick up a factory one here in a bit to see if that helps. I also plan on draining some of the coolant so that it cant overflow before the thermo opens which will ensure all the air gets out. With that, a new fan and a new temp sensor, I should be set..... ugh

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PostPosted: July 10, 2017, 11:12 am 
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I had a chance Saturday to mess with the cooling system again and it looks like I got it all sorted out, well at least sitting in the garage. This time i just changed the ECT sensor and use a fancy Lisle funnel. The thermostat still didn't open until 180ish but i am going to assume that the temp sensor reads a different temp than the thermostat because it is on the head which will heat up sooner. Once the thermo opened the engine and radiator temps stayed the same, around 185°. I opened the throttle pretty aggressively a few times and the hottest I could get the engine temp was 195°. I would rev the engine so that the radiator said over 200° and the engine still wouldn't go above 195°.
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So now i just need to drive her around once i put the new fan on and see how she does. Battery (maybe starter now) is still an issue and it sounds like there is a weird noise coming from the starter while the engine is running. Its intermittent so I will try to get a video. I did pull the relay wire from the starter to make sure it wasn't getting some random signal while the engine was running but that didn't do anything. Could be the tranny for all i know since its hard to tell.

That also makes me wonder if running the alternator charge wire to the starter (where the battery connects) is a good idea. Any thoughts? I really shouldn't do anything without a relay signal but i don't really know.
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PostPosted: July 15, 2017, 1:59 am 
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It's fairly common for the charge wire from the alternator to connect to the main battery + wire at the starter. Quite a few OEM systems work that way. You could run the charge wire from the alternator to the + terminal on the battery itself, but if you look at that setup, you are really just connecting the charge wire to the other end of the main battery wire.

However, if you are running a "race" type battery disconnect switch somewhere on the car, then you would want to run that charge wire either to the battery + lead or to some other point on the main wire behind the switch. Otherwise, the charge from the alternator would energize the system via that connection at the starter and the cutoff switch wouldn't "kill" the ignition.

Totally confused? OK, good. My work is finished here...

:cheers:
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