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PostPosted: September 15, 2019, 9:36 pm 
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mjalaly wrote:
I was hoping to take her to a small Track by the office on Friday. Any suggestions on an oil cooler? Should I also try to run just straight water or some sort of racing coolant?


Distilled water with water wetter.

Just make sure you change it or add coolant before winter. Don’t want to freeze your block and have it crack.


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PostPosted: September 15, 2019, 9:49 pm 
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I was thinking maybe this one

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... CrECZNTjcd

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PostPosted: September 16, 2019, 1:11 pm 
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This is the one I'm running https://derale.com/product-footer/fluid ... ler-detail and it does an excellent job of keeping my oil temp in check under sustained track use. You're putting out significantly more power than I am so I would suspect you'll want something a little larger than the 10 row cooler you listed.


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PostPosted: September 16, 2019, 1:16 pm 
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I stand by my recommendation of the OEM RX-8 twin coolers from a 6 port high-output car.

Cheap (~70 each used on ebay as of today, less from forums/facebook/junkyard), OEM quality, small, and built-in bypass valves.

Add some braided lines, fans, and ducting, and you're set.

They also allow for much better packaging on the car, being two smaller coolers.
You also get an extra few quarts of capacity out of them, which helps.


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PostPosted: September 16, 2019, 6:20 pm 
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Straight distilled water with a corrosion inhibitor like water wetter is highly effective as a temp fix but needs to be changed annually because the inhibitors break down and go away. Gycol (anti-freeze) greatly reduces the ability of the water to cool, mostly defeating the purpose of running water wetter. If you have ac, it is possible to freeze/bust the heater core any time of year because just a portion of the heated coolant flows through the core with the stat open.

The $86 oil cooler kit you linked to does not have a thermostat for the oil which is important and the hoses may not be long enough or the fittings the right angle for you installation. A thermostat cooler will have a top hat style cap over the stat.

Zack has the ideal setup that just needs a thermostatic adapter with an10 or an8 fittings with ½ inch barbs for oil rated push lock hose. A lot of these aftermarket coolers oversize the fitting threaded end to an10 but step it down to ½ barb.
You can put together your own setup with a 25 row for $50, a thermostat sandwich adapter for $25, ½ inch pushloc hose by 6 feet for $30, and four fittings depending on what you need as far as angle for $20-30. You can use the old fan to cool it in the back on the side similar to Zacks so you don’t preheat the coolant. The 25 row cooler is about the same frontal area as a piece of paper.

Ideally, the oil cooler will have a drain hole opposite the fitting side so you can mount the cooler so it hold the extra oil needed without overfilling the pan every time you shut it off and change the oil without removing the cooler. You’d still need to refill the cooler through a line so there is not a large delay in oil pressure after an oil change. To my knowledge, nobody sells coolers with a drain like this.

The issue with used coolers is that these are parallel flow coolers for minimal oil pressure drop, so you cannot ensure they are clean because flushing can take a parallel path around the debris. Then after it runs a while and gets hot under pressure, the debris lets loose, trashing the pump and bearings but if you know the source coolers did not come from a car with an engine failure, they are probably ok.

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PostPosted: September 16, 2019, 7:05 pm 
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I got this one

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... RiahwjwZ5a

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PostPosted: September 16, 2019, 7:32 pm 
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That looks like a nice kit. The thermostat I was talking about prevent oil flow through the cooler when the engine and oil are cold so it will warm up normally. Like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Oil-F ... %7Ciid%3A1

It closes one port while opening another to bypass the cooler or force all the oil through the cooler so the oil always has a path from the pump to bearings. It looks like the one you bought does not have a thermostat. Just fyi.

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PostPosted: September 17, 2019, 6:47 am 
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MV8 is right on track with the thermostatic by-pass. With just a pressure by-pass, before installing a Mocal by-pass, on really cool days it could take up to 45 minutes for the oil to get up to temp with the cold air constantly moving across the oil cooler. [ you could actually see lower water temps from the oil cooler ] The current set-up, the by-pass just starts to open around 146-8*F range and it only takes about 10 minutes to get the oil up to a good operating temp. Differently worth the investment if you run thicker oil. Davew


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PostPosted: September 17, 2019, 10:44 pm 
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MV8, davew.... noted. I will need to get a thermo switch in a sandwich plate.

I did more testing today and the radiator temp sensor is actually on the hottest point of the radiator. It's located in the upper left-hand side of the attached pic. The second coldest point is they lower left followed by the upper right. The coldest is the lower right and its pretty cool while idling and not revving the engine. Seeing how my Inlet and Outlet ports are centered I'm not pulling the coolest coolant from the radiator (maybe I am since the whole right hand technically combines).

So the first thing I need to do is move that coolant temp sensor so that I can see what the exit temp is before going into the engine. That way I can see how effective the radiator is. Easiest way to do this is to flip the coolant hoses then flip the drain screw and the temp sensor which would make it a bleed screw. I would just have to remove the temp sensor if I wanted to fully drain the radiator. Hopefully they are the same thread.

So what i have been seeing this whole time is temperatures hotter than what they actually are but what I don't understand why is the engine temp is still measuring high when it's being supplied cooler coolant. That coolant must be heating up super fast when it hits that engine.

I still could be getting heat soak but I wont know until I move that temp sensor.


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PostPosted: September 18, 2019, 11:11 pm 
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Man I dont know where to mount this cooler. It's quite big.

Any input?


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PostPosted: September 19, 2019, 5:50 am 
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The rad temps are interesting but the coolant temp around the cylinder head with a probe near the engine outlet is the primary concern. If you feel the radiator has an issue or blockage, all you need is your hand and access to the core as it warms up to feel the temp change. An area slower to warm up indicates poor flow or a blockage.

The biggest fan that will fit with the most amps, the largest thickest core that will fit, no more glycol than you need to prevent problems and efficient ducting to force air through is all you can do practically without modifying the engine flow for improved pumping (impeller improvement, minimal bypass, smaller pump pulley) or reduced restriction (high flow stat, drilled head gasket, pump passage porting).

I tried to explain before that the fittings to the cooler need to be on top so it will stay full of oil after shut down, to prevent over filling the pan from drain back and dripping oil out of the crank seals. Staying full also means the oil pump will not have to delay oil to the bearings to refill the cooler and lines which should be as short as practical. If you don't want to weld a drain in the cooler, a drill mounted pump or low pressure fuel pump would work well at oil change time. Disconnect a line, run a hose that resists vacuum down into the bottom to suck the oil out, refill.

Either cooler position shown should work ok. The rear mount fits in a bolt-on cage. All you need to do is drill open the frame tube ends and weld in a nut insert, then bolt flanges on to weld the cage to. Just need to move the plate up/over.


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PostPosted: September 20, 2019, 8:18 pm 
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Well that was short lived. Pretty sure the engine is blown again. Its so hard when you spend a lot of time building something like this... take it our for the first time this year and the engine blows. I can't even explain how hard it is to deal with something like this especially since it's the 6th time. My gut tells me to get rid of her but my heart says not to give up.

Ugggghh


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PostPosted: September 21, 2019, 7:52 am 
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That sucks. I try to limit failures by absorbing as much info as possible but there is no better teacher. What were the six failures? You’ve got a lot of pages to go through. What did you learn from each failure? I’m guessing at least one each for maintaining oil pressure for hard cornering, momentary lean detonation from adding the turbo, and one for cooling capacity must increase with power output. Teach us so we don’t have to go through what you are experiencing right now. For example, I learned yesterday not to run 230vac across the motor speed leads on an air handler blower motor because I was in a hurry and misread the label :BH: At least it was the old motor I was trying to use temporarily by switching to a good speed.

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PostPosted: September 27, 2019, 2:07 pm 
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Wise words MV8.

There are plenty of gumption traps when we embark on a project where all the decisions are our own and when things go wrong it is quite demoralising and emotionally gutting. But each setback is an essential hurdle we must overcome to reach reliabilty. The big manufacturers have massive teams of dedicated people to work these issues and they still get it wrong - there is no better test driver or technician for your car than you. This thread proves you have the dedication to succeed - you just have to persevere through the low times and the frequency of technical issues will reduce as you achieve the overall package balance.


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PostPosted: October 1, 2019, 8:21 pm 
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So after sitting a bit to cool off I figure I would give some details on what happened. However I have not touched the engine to figure out what exactly went wrong but here is the jest.

First set of laps I noticed after the first few turns that when ever I got into the accelerator, the car would bog down. I figure the short term full trim was still adjusting and after a few laps I pulled her into the pits. It took a bit for the oil cooler fan to come on and car was reading around 220deg. After a bit of looking around, because of the rough idle, I realize that the vacuum hose for the map sensor had popped off and that was causing the bogging. Not a great start.

What was interesting is that while the car was idling and with the oil cooler fan on, the temperature at the radiator was dropping dramatically, not slowly as it had done before. However the temp at the engine was still showing High. This may be due to a bad temp sensor.

Once we got the map sensor sorted we were able to just rip it on the track (I was riding passenger). After a few laps we noticed that the blow off valve wasn't opening all the way and that she was running hot so we pitted her on the next lap. She was handling like a beast and was crazy fast. When we got into the pit I noticed that oil had blown out of the oil catch can and she was running hot still. I was worried about the idol, heat and oil so we shut her down. I did some more digging and realized that the vacuum hose to the blow off valve was off at the manifold. Not a big deal for the engine except for the fact that that vacuum line also feeds the fuel pressure regulator. :BH:

Then I knew something was up because she wouldn't start back up. Not seized but couldn't fire.

Now she is home and I will check the oil 4 bearing media and do a compression test. Based on this info several things could have gone wrong... I wont know until I am in there. I'm leaning towards rings.

Fun stuff....

https://youtu.be/_8FOqfoNc-Q


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