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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:26 am 
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The voice of reason
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I once sat in a real LeMans GT40 and was shocked that I had to climb over the fuel tank to get to the drivers seat, the tanks are the armrests (both sides)!


I'm envious. My Formula Fords did that too.

Quote:
Because times have changed


I see your point, but you don't like the FFR chassis either. You could use larger tubes, put in some cage and still basically copy the 23 chassis and be doing much better. I'm not copying the 23 chassis, but I have a lot of the same tubes. You still get something light, strong and stiff.

I'm thinking 40-50 lbs. more steel in that Lotus 23 and you would still be way ahead of that FFR. That things looks like they just threw steel at it. Why not just use a huge spool of MIG wire and skip the tubing! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:21 am 
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You guys are brutal. :shock:

It does appear at first glance that it will fold, the diagonals over lap, and the crossection at the overlap looks to be at least 12". Also, the heavier tubing for side impact is a factor. Also, how much load or impact are we talking about? Everything has a limit. It should be modeled in FEA before condemnation. I have condemned a few things without modeling, but on this, I'm not so sure.

The guys at FFR are PEs but everything is a compromise.

I love the Lotus 23 but agree it was not designed to cope with a 16 year old half in the other lane, driving a 7,000 lb vehicle while texting her bff.

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:01 pm 
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You guys are brutal.


OK MV8 you're right, for all the reasons you mentioned. I told myself not to even step into this thread and then I told myself not to say the type of things I said and then I went ahead and did it.

Criticism is always free but that doesn't mean you should give it away so easily... :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:28 pm 
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another view..

Image

ok, I have one major issue.. What's with the side/sill height...? They seem to have this suspicious looking low entry opening, which does no favour to stiffness and front crash safety.... on the other hand, it is supposed to be a low sports car... I am sure anyone would be comfortable with a higher sill.. ? (am I using a correct term, sill / rocker panel? )

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
You guys are brutal. :shock:

It does appear at first glance that it will fold, the diagonals over lap, and the crossection at the overlap looks to be at least 12". Also, the heavier tubing for side impact is a factor. Also, how much load or impact are we talking about? Everything has a limit. It should be modeled in FEA before condemnation.


This has been in several forums (ya for free advertising) I while I don't remember the numbers, it was modeled in FEA for stiffness and it came out pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:01 pm 
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For the life of me, I can't figure out where your legs will go in that frame.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:21 am 
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the diagonals that look like going just under the knees are especially interesting.. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:36 am 
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Off Road SHO wrote:
For the life of me, I can't figure out where your legs will go in that frame.

Tom


They will be just below your ass.

kikiturbo wrote:
the diagonals that look like going just under the knees are especially interesting.. :)


I don't understand why the weren't carried the full height and full width there.


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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:53 am 
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In an accident one leg will go over each shoulder . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:25 pm 
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I dont quite understand the the "bent" tube in the front bay of the chassis (upper).


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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:11 pm 
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cs3tcr wrote:
I dont quite understand the the "bent" tube in the front bay of the chassis (upper).

There's one on the otherside, too, and suspect that they forgot to draw in the matching diagonals.

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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:23 pm 
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cs3tcr wrote:
I dont quite understand the the "bent" tube in the front bay of the chassis (upper).


I suspect that there's some bracketry infill going there for the Subaru's front struts.

allmtr wrote:
In an accident one leg will go over each shoulder . . .


Hope you're referring to your female passenger ...


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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:24 pm 
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If it is a strut frontend, the loading is more vertical and less inboard than coilovers we are used to seeing.

I suspect the low sides are to make it easier to get in and out of. I would have moved the pink node inboard so the node behind it would be created where the tubes cross and one vertical tube would be eliminated at the pink node. Looks like a good bit of 1x2 rhs.


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 Post subject: Re: Subie middy from FFR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:26 am 
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horizenjob wrote:
Does anyone know what that Lotus frame weighs? I'll bet it's well under a hundred pounds. ...

I believe the weight of (just) that frame is quoted at 68 pounds in one of the books I have on my research shelf. Stunningly simple and yet surprisingly effective for what it is. I suspect modern race tires and engine power would make a bendy mess of it, though.

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