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PostPosted: July 13, 2014, 4:32 pm 
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I'm still working on my C4 Corvette project but I came across a cool little car that I thought you might be interested in. I have a couple of Kellison bodies, and a Devin too. I'm addicted to the old sports racers.

I found a one of kind body on Ebay last weekend. It was a modified 1964 Crusader. The Crusader VSR was designed by Chuck Tatum. He essentially modified a formula Vee chassis to make it a 2 seater and created a slick little fiberglass body for it. His idea was to create an affordable racing class for SCCA. The class was never approved. I think 7 cars were built and 4 are known to exist today.

The body on ebay was modified to allow for larger/wider tires. I purchased the body. When picking it up I discovered that the owner had 1 of the 4 original Crusaders. He vintage races it. I really like it.

The car uses VW suspension, transaxle, and engine limited to 1835cc. 100hp and weighs 950lbs. When I build my version I plan to make it street legal.

Having fun.

The Yellow car is the original car that is being raced today. The old looking picture is the body that I purchased as it was in the early 70's
.ImageImage[/URL[URL=http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/jmcbigbelly/media/crusaderfronthigh_zps7a2d4a0c.jpg.html]ImageImage


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PostPosted: July 13, 2014, 10:23 pm 
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do you intend on building a complete car, if so, will it look like the yellow one or the other?

the triumph front suspension is a bit strange but the uprights, hubs and brakes are the tried and tested alford & alder used on 60's F1.

if you are going to scrap the front vw stuff then take a look at Marcus's car 9 chassis or the midlander.

looking at the pictures, there is only an option for conventional coil over as opposed to something inboard.

are there any intentions to make body molds?

very interesting build, keep up the postings, you have my support for what its worth.

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Last edited by john hennessy on July 13, 2014, 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: July 13, 2014, 10:31 pm 
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Gee the yellow one is a darn nice looking 70's mini-Can Am car.


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PostPosted: July 13, 2014, 11:40 pm 
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cheapracer wrote:
Gee the yellow one is a darn nice looking 70's mini-Can Am car.


My thoughts exactly. My favorite cars are the Can Am cars. The first race I saw was a Can Am race in 1967 at Riverside Park in Ca.

I have worked out a deal to pull molds from the yellow car and copy the frame. I'm going to build a clone. THEN I might build it with modern drivetrain and suspension. I think that I have found the basis for my need to have a project for years to come. :D


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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 1:01 am 
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i would suggest that the transaxle be a later irs unit, using the vw hubs mounted in a suitable upright to use upper and lower "A" arms.

see pictures

Attachment:
mals cv3 002.jpg
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Attachment:
mals cv3 001.jpg
mals cv3 001.jpg [ 380.72 KiB | Viewed 6151 times ]



these are thunderbird aluminum uprights with a vw irs hub inserted, the large bush holes have two piece aluminum bushes so that upper and lower 1/2" hiem joints can be used.

this, together with the triumph front uprights will provide a much updated suspension system.

new hubs to insert in the upright are available this also enables the use of vw aftermarket disc brakes on the rear which can be supplied undrilled for any wheel pcd so the triumph 3 3/4" spacing could be used.

note that the bearing hole in the t-bird upright is 72mm and the outside dia of the vw aftermarket hubs is the same, the uprights just need the bearing stop lip removed for a push fit.


Attachments:
mals cv3 003.jpg
mals cv3 003.jpg [ 384.34 KiB | Viewed 6151 times ]

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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 2:22 am 
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jmc14 wrote:
The Yellow car is the original car that is being raced today. The old looking picture is the body that I purchased as it was in the early 70's
Saw a blue/silver Crusader at the vintage races at Pacific Raceways over the 4th of July weekend. #36 I think, driver Ron F. Great looking car!

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 2:30 am 
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john hennessy wrote:
these are thunderbird aluminum uprights .......... the large bush holes have two piece aluminum bushes so that upper and lower 1/2" hiem joints can be used.
John can you provide some more detail on the aluminum bushes you inserted in the uprights. Maybe some pics?

Thanks.

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 6:48 am 
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john hennessy wrote:
the triumph front suspension is a bit strange but the uprights, hubs and brakes are the tried and tested alford & alder used on 60's F1.


No John, it's all regular vw. The front beam is from a type 3 vw.

I think it is very cool too!

I wouldn't change anything. Might fit a type 4 bus/914 motor.

How about a better photo of the shift tube area beneath the right axle tube?

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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 8:44 am 
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John, Thank you very much for the info on using the Tbird hubs. Very cool.

My plan is to build the 1st car using the original spec VW parts and to the 1964 standards. I've been told that If I build it that way that some of the Vintage racing groups will allow it to run with them. I'ld like to do that.

The owner of the 36 told me that his car pulls 1.5g's on the little Hoosiers that they run. The VW parts are simple and obviously not the best from a geometry stand point. But, they are readily available and pretty inexpensive. A complete front end is $500, aftermarket close ratio transaxle is $1000, complete crate engine $3500-5000. Not exactly locost but in the end reasonable for parts that are new and simply bolt in.

I am 3 hours away from the car at this time. After labor day weekend it will be torn down. I will get a bunch of pictures then and post them.

The owner is making me a spread sheet with a list of every part and multiple suppliers. That is going to help a lot.

Having fun.


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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 1:03 pm 
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Tom, the t-bird stuff is a pile of junk and i have not seen an upright in use on a t-bird that din't have worn bushes, there is a kit for t-bird/kit cobras that use sperical bearings but that is expencive too.

i just made a whole bunch of top hat bushes, the top hole is a different size than the bottom, you use two bushes per hole, one from each side and they have a machined 1/2" hole in them, this gives suitable mounts for 1/2" hiems.


Attachment:
t-bird upright 001.jpg
t-bird upright 001.jpg [ 368.14 KiB | Viewed 6094 times ]



note that one long grade 8 bolt will be used through the lower pivots and a tubular spacer will be in between the two pairs of bushes to stop the upright from deforming.

Miatav8, sorry, my mistake, there is another current post on a crusader where he intends to cut the vw stuff off and fit triumph suspension.


Attachments:
t-bird upright 002.jpg
t-bird upright 002.jpg [ 367.39 KiB | Viewed 6094 times ]

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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 2:06 pm 
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john hennessy wrote:
Tom, the t-bird stuff is a pile of junk and i have not seen an upright in use on a t-bird that din't have worn bushes, there is a kit for t-bird/kit cobras that use sperical bearings but that is expencive too.

i just made a whole bunch of top hat bushes, the top hole is a different size than the bottom, you use two bushes per hole, one from each side and they have a machined 1/2" hole in them, this gives suitable mounts for 1/2" hiems.

note that one long grade 8 bolt will be used through the lower pivots and a tubular spacer will be in between the two pairs of bushes to stop the upright from deforming.
John, thanks for the detail and pics. Very cool indeed.

A little more detail on the lower bushings, please: Were your top hat bushings a clearance fit, interference fit or ? How deep is does each bush go into the hole? Will they be loc-tite'd in place? How thick did you make the brim of the top hats? (or maybe you have a sketch or drawing of the lower bushings you could share?)

jmc14, sorry for highjacking your thread on the bushing topic, but John's approach provides a neat rear toe-control option.

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 3:24 pm 
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This is very cool. I had a VW-Devin back in the 70s as my daily driver. I also had an early Crusader forumla vee that I bought to go racing and never managed to get working. I eventually cannibalized it for parts for the Devin. Being rear-engined rather than mid, the Devin was a handful but with only 36 hp it was hard to get into trouble. Although not impossible.

Part of the experience of vintage racing, for me, is using the old suspension and engine designs. A car with a vintage body on a modern chassis just isn't the same. Or even close. I would stick with the VW gear. That Devin was a blast.


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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 3:55 pm 
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Tom,

i really don't think a tight a fit is necessary, if you make them a press or an interference fit, then you need to align all four bottom bushes when you press them in, distortion in the housing may occure.

i made them .005 under size, then if necessary, i could epoxy them in place on assembly and alignment would not impose any stress on the upright, i know this could move the pivot point by .010 max but with a single long bolt this should self center so no problem.

the flanges on the ends are 1/4" thick and i left a 1/8" gap between the bushes when they are installed.

if i were to do it again, with the top bush, i would put the 1/2" hole off center and provide flats on the stop flange to enable simple camber adjustments, this would need the outside bush to be longer so that it went almost the length of the holes and a thick washer with a step on the inside and a larger than 1/2" hole.

the only problem would be the distance between the top and bottom pivots would change by the amount the bush was rotated in the housing, this would change the roll center somewhat but to such a small extent as to be of no consern, most production cars are done like this, the longer bush would need to be installed on the hiem side.

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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 4:47 pm 
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Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture but if the aluminum bushings aren't a tight fit won't they rotate in the upright as the suspension moves?

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PostPosted: July 14, 2014, 7:05 pm 
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Andrew,

when the through bolt is in the bottom together with the spacer tube it pulls the bush halves together, clamping the upright, then with the pivot in the hiem joint it will want to pivot there

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