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PostPosted: September 7, 2014, 1:36 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
Look through this http://www.midlana.com




How well do you think the concept of the Midlana will do with a stretched rear chassis?

What was the wheelbase of your Midlana anyway?


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PostPosted: September 8, 2014, 11:15 pm 
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"Version 6" Frame

Changed the front to use less metal, changed the rear to accommodate a roll bar much better. Haven't finished the rear bulk head behind the driver's back (undecided on tube placement? ) and haven't finished the very rear framing for the transmission yet.

What do you think?


Attachments:
Middy Frame V6-1 Iso.JPG
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Middy Frame V6-1 Top View.JPG
Middy Frame V6-1 Top View.JPG [ 72.35 KiB | Viewed 1091 times ]
Middy Frame V6-1 Side View.JPG
Middy Frame V6-1 Side View.JPG [ 56.03 KiB | Viewed 1091 times ]
Middy Frame V6-1 Front View.JPG
Middy Frame V6-1 Front View.JPG [ 61.63 KiB | Viewed 1091 times ]
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PostPosted: September 8, 2014, 11:52 pm 
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Was playing around with possible scuttle substructures as well... Not really familiar with the scuttle and it's overall dimensions though so it's definitely rough... Thoughts?


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Middy Frame V6-1 Iso Scuttle V2.JPG
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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 9:36 am 
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I took some time to try and learn Sketch Up. Here is the Sketch Up model. Feel free to download and adjust. Wheel base is 2inches longer then the AutoCad Screen shots as I messes up 2 cabin tubes but, the Sketch Up is perfectly accurate frame wise.

Have at it!

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model. ... c99302c859


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Sketchup Middy.JPG
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Last edited by autoxinvr6 on September 11, 2014, 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 9:40 am 
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Can you give a pointer for where to download? Our forum does have to the room to host it so you can upload it to the SketchUp 3dwarehouse.

Even in this picture it's easier to see what's going on because of the viewpoint. I know it's frustrating to learn a new tool and maybe just plain frustrating, but I think the will go better of you.

I'll download it when you get your link and then we can talk and exchange models...

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 9:46 am 
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Sorry, I did upload to the 3d warehouse, forgot to ad the link. Here it is below, and I will update the above post

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model. ... c99302c859


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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 12:54 pm 
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Hi Nelson, I did a little work and uploaded my version. Here is a pointer. https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u2a8add43-5eab-4c2f-9303-2465f0fb15fd

The changes are simple and we can keep going forward. I am a little unclear as to how details of this will work out, I haven't really been sharing models thru the warehouse, but if we can figure it out it will be good. There is some chance it will download back to you with the same name, I am not sure how the file name and the name in warehouse are kept separate. So it would be a good idea to save you model when you download or keep a different folder for my stuff, whatever.

I made these changes:

- I put in Joshua Brigg's nice wheels for you. They are 25" diameter, about what you had before. They are components so if you bring up the window ( under the windows menu ) for "Entity info" it will have a description in the name. I don't know how to make the tires look like rubber the way Joshua did, but I stole his rims for you. :rofl:

- I put your model so the bottom center of the front bulkhead is on the origin point. That makes it easier to cut and "paste in place" between models. There is a little marker on the frame now with your name there. Someday it may make sense to keep a revision number there.

- I put in the Subaru rear upright.

- I put in a picture of the subaru engine which is about right just for comparison. It's basically inside your current engine, but I thought it might help you.

- I added one tube where the dash goes. It should probably have a roll hoop or some hoop on top of the frame there and the cross tube I added is needed to give strength to the side roll bars.

I put the whole car in a group so it was easier to move and rotate to alighn with the origin. You can ungroup it now if you wish.

Learning how to make components and groups and putting everything in to them is a big help. When you make something like those side roll bars, make them into a component or group before you rotate them. For instance you could copy and rename the side roll bars to make the dash hoop, but they are already rotated so it's harder to use them generically.

This goes for all the tubes, make them into a group or a component then rotate them. On my model I made the left side of the car a component and then copied it flipped across the green axis. Now whenever I change something on one side, the other side changes magically.

If you haven't changed much today you can just cut and paste my work into your model and then upload again after you make some changes. Then I will do the same.

I have a separate model I try to keep the parts in. It actually has selves to put them on and a workbench. That's where I did the work for your wheels. I will re-upload that soon, it needs little more cleanup.

Another feature which is helpful is the layers window. That is also in the windows menu. So on your rims there are rulers and guidelines to help get the offset etc. right. Those are in the "jigs" layer and turning that off will make them disappear when you don't want them. It helps to look at things like steering scrub too.

When you get back to me we can talk about the front of your frame and getting a little more legroom and making it just a little bit simpler. Nothing big, you obviously have the right idea.

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 7:55 pm 
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The wheels are a nice touch! A lot better then my cylinder approximations haha.

I was thinking in the rear I might use the front upright for simplicity, not having to but the hybrid axle shaft to mate the front inner CV to the rear outer CV to use the rear upright but, if it works out better that way, it's obviously easier to work out. For what it's worth I'm attempting to model the front upright. I've got some front uprights, an entire motor, an entire trans, 1 front CV and some various odds and ends for the project I am taking direct measurements from.

Also, I think the transmission in the picture you use is actually a Porsche or a VW transmission, it looks completely different from my Subaru transmissions.

I wasn't yet sure how to move the car in my drawing or transfer the name plate over , so for now I just cut and pasted the center bar and created two separate versions from my own original drawing, one with a full cage (I think that's what you meant when you mentioned a "roll hoop"?) and one without so we could try different versions. It downloads as the same file name from the warehouse so, each iteration (if we want old ones kept) would have to be named in succession.

As for changes from this morning. I added the "McSorley" style control arm slider boxes (see:http://sevenesque.com/assembly/37-upper-control-arms.html) for the approximate locations of the control arm mounts on the frame. The boxes should be close to scale and are mounted with the centers in the proper locations according to the pickups in the VSUSP link I included at the bottom. The only other changes are very rear cross bars up top have been changed and the rear section has been moved back an inch or so. Before I only had them at 5inches on center where they should have been 6inches on center. Other then the addition of the cage and your cage reinforcement bar, nothing else was added. I did remove the seat, it was too large for this car and I did not look for a new one yet.

I don't know if using the circle track style control arms would be beneficial for both upper and lower? Playing with the VSUSP I noticed how easy it was to change the entire car's suspension angles with an inch or two up or down in either direction. If it's not feasible or a different lower control arm is necessary we can definitely change that but, if possible it would be nice to keep the uppers at least...

Any changes you see that will make it stiffer or less complex are welcome. Obviously this is just a concept so, to have it close to right before I start cutting again would be great!

Thanks!

No cage version - https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model. ... 5f93d292d7
Cage version - https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model. ... f7b84d132b


Last edited by autoxinvr6 on September 11, 2014, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 7:56 pm 
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For some reason it doesn't let me do the whole link...


http://www.vsusp.com/#0.8%26project_name%3Adefault%20values%26trim{body_roll_angle%3A0|front.left_bump%3A0|rear.left_bump%3A0|front.right_bump%3A0|rear.right_bump%3A0}%26front{frame.susp_type%3A0|frame.bottom_y%3A13969|frame.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A24536|frame.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A26517|frame.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A22034|frame.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A8890|control_arms.upper_length%3A40640|control_arms.lower_length%3A48260|knuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A14700|knuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A9900|knuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A8500|knuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A14700|knuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000|knuckles.strut_incl%3A8000|wheels.offset%3A5499|wheels.diameter%3A1600|wheels.diameter_expl%3A35000|tires.size_convention%3A0|tires.section_width%3A20500|tires.aspect_ratio%3A5500|tires.diameter_expl%3A50000|tires.width_expl%3A7620}%26rear{frame.susp_type%3A0|frame.bottom_y%3A13969|frame.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A27647|frame.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A25146|frame.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A21069|frame.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A8890|control_arms.upper_length%3A36957|control_arms.lower_length%3A48260|knuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A14697|knuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A9900|knuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A8503|knuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A14697|knuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000|knuckles.strut_incl%3A8000|wheels.offset%3A5499|wheels.diameter%3A1600|wheels.diameter_expl%3A35000|tires.size_convention%3A0|tires.section_width%3A20500|tires.aspect_ratio%3A5500|tires.diameter_expl%3A50000|tires.width_expl%3A7620}%26pref{diag1.px_per_mm%3A200|diag1.front_or_rear%3Afront|tab.active%3A1|units%3A0|show.f%3A1|show.ca%3A1|show.k%3A1|show.w%3A1|show.t%3A1|show.rc%3A1|show.ic%3A1|show.fvsa%3A0|show.tl%3A0|show.kpil%3A0|redraw_during_drag%3A1|chart.x_axis_center%3A0|chart.x_axis_window%3A10|chart.x_axis_num_steps%3A21|chart.x_axis_field%3Atrim.body_roll_angle|chart.y_axis_fields%3A[FR].general.roll_center.y}


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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 9:21 pm 
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Going to have to redesign the rear section to account for a turbo. This is a model I found of a VF39 (STI turbo). The VF39 is a tad bit larger then the stock WRX TD04, but physically they are very close. I placed the turbo using the approximate location from my actual WRX and, there's interference.


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PostPosted: September 11, 2014, 11:48 pm 
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1 big issue Im seeing. Are you going to be able to pull the engine out if you need too once the engine is complete. Doesnt look like it will drop from bottom or top or be able to pull out the back. Its an easy fix just making the rear most tubes be bolted in.

A couple of tricks I've learned in sketchup. For a 1" tube draw a 1" square, double click the square and it will highlight blue. Right click anywhere on the blue and click "make group". Then double click to edit the group. Then you pull the surface making it however long you want.

Same deal with tubes. Draw a circle with a line going to the center routing it how you want the tube to go, make it a group and use the follow tool.

Sketchup is great. I really enjoy using it.

As far as the tires I found all the specs of the tires on tirerack.com. Then I paint them using the asphalt color, closest color I could find to rubber.

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28 years old, Welder and prior service (Army). Owner of 8Eight FAB (check me out on Instagram and Facebook @8EightFab). Currently building a square tube Car9 chassis, powered by a 2.3 duratec.


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PostPosted: September 12, 2014, 12:34 am 
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https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model. ... ed6da2e2bd

Just some roll cage updates and a new seat for you. The roll cage really needs a rear diagonal, but that is going to take a bit of work. You honestly don't need a tall front hoop unless you really want one. A short front hoop will work as long as you keep the clearance for a helmet for SCCA rules.

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PostPosted: September 12, 2014, 9:44 am 
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Also, I think the transmission in the picture you use is actually a Porsche or a VW transmission, it looks completely different from my Subaru transmissions.


You might be right. :) I've lost track of the details of that picture, I know it was from a web site that was selling a kit to put a Subaru motor in your 911. It might also be a FWD Subaru transmission?

You can cut and paste pieces or entire contents between the models we are uploading. The way I moved your model around was to select everything by drawing a box around it and then making it into a group. Then when you move it it has markers on the side of the box that let you rotate it.

I'll go look at yours and Brigg's updates.

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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PostPosted: September 12, 2014, 11:04 am 
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Learning how to use the layers feature of SketchUp will help you out. I gave directions on how to find it but that was on a Mac, navigating is a bit different on a PC. Somewhere though you can bring up a little window labeled "layers". Then you can put your cage into a layer called "CageFull" or something. You can have another layer for just the roll bar etc. You need this just to be able to see what you are doing after awhile.

My Car9 model has at least 30 layers. You can keep work in progress separate, you can include a real Locost frame for reference, lots of things you can do. When you find this menu you will already have a layer for the driver and also skin and bones (for the driver). Often you need to hide the driver or the drivetrain to work on the frame for example.

I am glad you found a turbo, sharing stuff is great - it's a lot of work making these things. Too bad more people aren't making car parts models we can use. I will put the turbo and your engine model into my workshop model.

So learn the layers feature, it will be a big help for you. The next thing is to get in the habit of making the tubes into a group before you rotate or place them. It's a big, big help for you. Really you should only have to make each size tube once. Then you can always just copy it, stretch it, and rotate to place. If you rotate the tube before it is grouped or rotate the tube inside of it's group, then you can't use it other places or adjust it nearly as easily.

For sure there are frustrations here, but think of the time you saved already getting that nice turbo model...

I think the rear uprights are very suitable for rear uprights. We don't have a front upright model yet so I can't say if they would be a help or not. often they are usable, but not as good, especially if they are for a strut suspension. If you model the front upright remember the important parts are the mounting holes, everything else is just looks. So that means your first model can be very simple, just the mounting holes.

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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PostPosted: September 12, 2014, 1:44 pm 
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No joke on the layers. It took me a while to get into the habit of checking to make sure I was drawing in the correct layer. Its second nature now. I always keep the layers and paint screens pulled up on the side. This screen shot is just to show how many layers I have.

Attachment:
Picture 1.png
Picture 1.png [ 279.01 KiB | Viewed 972 times ]


I still haven't figured out how to do like Marcus and draw half of something and the other half draws itself. I notice if I edit some of his work it will do that. It works for the frame for me but not for things like suspension arms that need to be mirrored.

Might have to play around with that to see if I can figure it out. I still have a lot to do and that could become handy.

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