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 Post subject: twin R1 engine idea...
PostPosted: September 13, 2014, 10:20 am 
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So i'm an F1 fanatic and would love to build a locost f1 look alike and i'm playing with a few ideas. My most feasible one is this.

Use twin R1 engines to get roughly 320 screaming hp and utilize two shifters linked together the way Zcars does them. I'm not the first to think about doing this but I cant find anything on the way I want to orient the motors. Below you can see a quick drawing on the engine layout. I may have enough room to place them side by side and not have to stagger them. I know they are roughly 18" wide.

My plan is to transmit the power from each motor to a common jack shaft. The jackshaft will then have a central sprocket that will chain drive the differential. Can you tell me what I'm missing to make this potentially work? I know the shifting will be tricky but its been done many times before. any issues using a common jackshaft?


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PostPosted: September 13, 2014, 10:45 am 
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Do you have extensive composite experience? That'll make the engine work seem trivial by comparison.

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PostPosted: September 13, 2014, 11:06 am 
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KB58 wrote:
Do you have extensive composite experience? That'll make the engine work seem trivial by comparison.


Not on a large scale like this but I have carbon composite wet layup experience and foam shaping. this would be a fun/possible track day car build. I'm weighing the single engine turbo / dual engine. idea. Problem is I want to run 15" wheels, 335ish rear tires and 305 fronts to look F1 ish... so i need the power.


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PostPosted: September 13, 2014, 11:17 am 
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Don't forget to take gear ratios and tire size into account, stock tire size for the R1 is 24.5" and the final drive ratio is 2.6875/1.
Using a bike gearbox means you'll have a tall first gear and really closely spaced gears. ..

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PostPosted: September 13, 2014, 11:56 am 
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You need a way of insuring the transmissions are both in the same gear.

Chains are scary, turn the motors sideways and use a shaft, short chains to a single drive shaft?

Hyabusa V8 has already been done that would be an awesome choice.

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PostPosted: September 13, 2014, 12:06 pm 
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I always liked the look of the ox series yamaha engine which I think is derived from a outboard. Some of these boat engines are really small ,super powerful, rev and are extremely light. To get your head round how small they are that is a 7"1/4 clutch hanging on the back of the engine.

Bob

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And they did a V8

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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 1:07 pm 
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kingkyle wrote:
My plan is to transmit the power from each motor to a common jack shaft. The jackshaft will then have a central sprocket that will chain drive the differential.
How about no jackshaft? If each engine drove one wheel, you wouldn't need a diff and the drive package would be simpler/lighter/cheaper to build.

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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 2:49 pm 
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JackMcCornack wrote:
How about no jackshaft? If each engine drove one wheel, you wouldn't need a diff and the drive package would be simpler/lighter/cheaper to build.

By individually applying gas and brakes, and having swival wheels up front, you could save even more weight by not having a steering wheel or rack!

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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 3:06 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
By individually applying gas and brakes, and having swival wheels up front, you could save even more weight by not having a steering wheel or rack!


:lol:


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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 3:19 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
JackMcCornack wrote:
How about no jackshaft? If each engine drove one wheel, you wouldn't need a diff and the drive package would be simpler/lighter/cheaper to build.

By individually applying gas and brakes, and having swival wheels up front, you could save even more weight by not having a steering wheel or rack!



My zero turn mower does that and I've many times tried to figure out a way to transfer this to an autocross car. I don't think it's viable for the street, but I'll bet it would be killer on a tighter autocross course.

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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 3:48 pm 
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I heard about a GoKart that beat everyone by having two engines one per wheel. You can set it up so that when you corner the outside wheel spins faster then the inside. No need for an LSD then you have independent power. You could set something up that relates to the steering and adds more power to the outside wheel. The tighter you turn the bigger the difference.

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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 3:53 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:
My zero turn mower does that and I've many times tried to figure out a way to transfer this to an autocross car. I don't think it's viable for the street, but I'll bet it would be killer on a tighter autocross course.


Ya know, what sounds like a monumentally ridiculous idea has possibilities in this computer everywhere world. My wife's BMW used various sensors to determine if the car was sliding and would apply the individual brakes to straighten it out. When I was setting up the fuel maps for my Locost ECU I got a lesson in how the computer read inputs and directed the injectors. If you used a steering column and pedal assembly from a car that was drive by wire, sent the output to a computer which controlled both motors....

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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 4:59 pm 
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The simple method would be connecting one engine directly to a driveshaft with an adaptor. then the second engine would connect to the drive shaft via chain. This way I can use a standard torsen diff. As long as the driveshaft is steel I can weld a sprocket to it.


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PostPosted: September 24, 2014, 12:09 pm 
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wrightcomputing wrote:
You can set it up so that when you corner the outside wheel spins faster then the inside.


you don't have to set up anything, really, that's what happens anyway when you turn. outside wheel describes a larger radius arc, adn thus turns faster than the inside wheel. the drag of the tire on the street will cause the engines to spin at different rpm.

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PostPosted: September 24, 2014, 1:00 pm 
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robbovius wrote:
wrightcomputing wrote:
You can set it up so that when you corner the outside wheel spins faster then the inside.


you don't have to set up anything, really, that's what happens anyway when you turn. outside wheel describes a larger radius arc, adn thus turns faster than the inside wheel. the drag of the tire on the street will cause the engines to spin at different rpm.



It can't be that simple can it?

But if you were to be able to apply more power to the outside wheel you could decrease your radius. That's what some of the active systems do nowadays.

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