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Alrighty, pipe came in yesterday, Racing Beat flywheel is due in this coming Tuesday.

I have the old pressure plate from the RX-8, which should fit the flywheel just fine.

Just ordered an XTD 6 puck ceramic unsprung race clutch disc for an 06 Sentra SER SPEC-V off fleabay.
It was the cheapest clutch disc I could find that wasn't in a kit with a pressure plate.
Ended up being 48.00 all said and done.

It should work fine for mockup, and might even be ok once the vehicle is built, who knows.

I'm going to machine the dry sump suction adapter later today, and see if the pipe can be bent tight enough to do what I want.

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

Check the fit *before* bolting things to the engine. And make sure the throwout bearing fits the input shaft. No need to wrestle driveline parts around on the floor trying to discover a problem with either...



Erm. Puck style discs are normally for "non-shifting" applications, same for non-sprung. Though the term is "non-shifting", they mostly mean "clutchless operation". They're only suitable for some types of racing, and generally very unpleasant for street use.

Fortunately, most OEM style clutch discs are similar; outside diameter, shaft diameter, spline count. The one I put on my '79 12A was for a Ford Pinto, but was otherwise identical to the Mazda part, except 1/3 the price.

If you measure the input shaft on the transmission and the diameter of the pressure ring on the pressure plate, you can probably find an OEM fitment chart online. Most of the aftermarket vendors have dimensional lists as well as OEM charts in their catalogs. You'll probably wind up with a dozen or more matches.

I strongly recommend, particularly with a light and powerful car, that you do NOT use any sort of racing or even "heavy duty" clutch disc. Those end to have friction materials optimized for hot operation, while yours will almost certainly never get warm enough for it to make a difference. The hot service friction curve comes at the expense of good cold friction curve characteristics.

I recommend you find an OEM application, then buy a factory replacement disc from a dealership or someone oneline who has real OEM parts. Factory discs are expensive, but they hold up for tens of thousands of miles of morons who use the clutch for a dead pedal among other abusive practices. Same thing for the throwout bearing, BTW. The suck factor of changing clutch parts far outweighs a bit of additional expense, at least for me.

The flywheel is the same part number for RX-8 and RX-7 turbo, so the PP has the same pattern.
The heights to the fingers may be different, but that remains to be seen.
My main concern is whether I'll have enough clamp surface for the Sentra disc.
The RX-8 disc is 236mm, and the Sentra one is 240mm. From my quick measurements, I'll be a few mm short.

It looks like I may need an FD RX-7 pressure plate (240mm clutch) to get a full match to the sentra disc.

I'm hoping the sentra release bearing can be used as-is.

I'm still in the mockup stage, and need to make a flywheel spacer to adjust for the adapter plate thickness, so final assembly will be a ways off, after first start of the engine.
Trans case still needs to be cleaned and painted, and possibly have some oiling modifications made. When in there, why not...

As far as disc goes, I went cheapest I could find for the mockup stage. It's not likely it will be used for much else, and I didn't want to risk oil/dirt/gloop damage to a proper one. There was a organic compound OE replacement disc on rockauto for $58, but I don't really want a "super cheap disc" for the long haul anyways.

Compounding the issue is the Sentra uses a dual mass flywheel design, so all the "OEM" replacement discs are unsprung, since the springs are in the flywheel. I can find aftermarket ones that are sprung, but they're either all in kits with a flywheel, release bearing, and pressure plate, or they're exotic compound.
I'm going to be searching the interchanges for a compatible sprung disc, and worst case I call up a distributor and ask for a mongrel package.

Very valid points on sprung/unsprung, and how they handle/what the applications are. It's good to hear something that backs up the data I've been looking at.

In a way, the unsprung is perfect for mockup, since I can align the center to be concentric with the eccentric shaft while bolting down the PP, then check for any misalignment the adapter plate introduces.

I'll need a sprung disc later anyways, since this transmission does not have a pilot on the input shaft, I don't have the springy dual mass flywheel, and I feel safer with a little bit of wiggle room to keep the input shaft splines from being torn up.

I paid $600 for a release bearing/clutch disc/PP for the RX-8 (parts only), so I'm well aware of how much quality components cost, and am prepared to spend that again if required.

Again, very valid concerns, and thanks for bringing them up!

I'm honestly surprised at how close to a jigsaw puzzle this has become, with pieces just fitting together. It's a far cry from machining my own flywheel for the last engine swap.

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

I figured you had everything under control; sometimes I ramble in case someone else following the thread might find it useful.

I appreciate it, sometimes my blinders go on and I don't see the BIG HONKING ISSUE when I'm looking at the teeeny tiny details...

I also tend to think-tank and bounce ideas, so it helps when more information is given.

I don't know everything (nor do I want to, because who in their right mind wants to know what every politician in america is thinking at every moment... ), so pooling information helps!

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

Ahem. Don't feel alone there...

And here we have 6 hours of work.


The bung is a store bought -10 that was just modified, the adapter block was all custom made.

Both are a sized for a 0.001" interference press fit to the 1/2" pipe (0.84" nominal OD), and will be welded on once the pipe is bent.
I left the small step on the bung, so I can hopefully do a fillerless weld when the time comes.
The main adapter will need some 0.0625" filler and some patience, to avoid super duper warpage.

Haven't decided if I want to put an oring groove in after everything is welded, or just go with 518 anaerobic.

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

New part came in!


Very lightly tightened down on the counterweight, just to make sure things fit.

I don't want to finish the press fit till the 13mm spacer is made.

No pics of the rest, it was mainly measurements and sanity checking.
The ring gear is the same as the one on the NA auto flex plate, and I'm good for starter height once the flywheel spacer is made.
I updated the CAD model now that I have my final flywheel, and things look good in the virtual world.



The RX-8 pressure plate fits the flywheel, doesn't foul the transmission case, and will even work with the Nissan throwout bearing.
But it's only good for a 236mm clutch. I measured, 240mm won't fit...

So I went ahead and ordered a 1990 RX-7 Turbo II pressure plate from rockauto, because they had one, it was cheap at $52.79, and in the odd chance it won't work, I'm not out $200+ for a performance one.
A Nissan clutch alignment tool sneaked into the order for a whopping $2.33 extra. I figure it's worth keeping in the toolbox.

Once the pressure plate comes in I can double check the engagement numbers again, and see how things go.

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

Can I get away with calling this a "First Start"?


I have photos of the flywheel spacer as it was being made/installed/etc, but they'll have to wait. Sleep is needed.

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

Regarding the sealing options you mentioned on the dry sump pickups, either will work there as long as the o-ring recess is a full groove. While you didn't mention the DS plate to engine yet, I've had the best performance combining Permatex Ultra Cooper on both sides of a stock gasket. Straight sealing compounds (various flavors) always developed slight seepage before a 20-hr rebuild.
I noticed that the plate only had two DS ports, both on the "left" side of the plate. Do you still intend to have a third one and will it be located on the right rear of the plate?

Looking good.

Ron

As far as placing the third port, I'm open to suggestions.

Currently there is one at the front cover pressure relief, and one at the rear iron relief. Both holes will be enlarged, once things are finalized. I also need to decide how best to put pre-pump filter screens in.

The pump I have is setup for 2 scavenge, one pressure, but I'm thinking it will be easily modified to use the pressure stage as scavenge.

Would it be safe to run two pickups on one scavenge stage?

I think I may have jumped the gun when I got the pump I did...

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

1) Based on your original plan to use stock pump to feed engine and all three stages of DS pump for scavenge.

Just remove the pressure adjuster/internals from the DS pump and cap the hole. Place a third scavenge port in the right rear of the plate under the front cover area. The way you've placed the two scavenge ports now, no oil will be picked up in left turns. Leave both of the stock pressure regulators in place ( The vertical one in the front side housing and the horizontal one in the rear side housing). The DS tank will need two inlets for the two output ports from the DS pump.

Two scavenge lines feeding one scavenge stage is not advised. The one sucking the most air will always win and the one with some oil to move .... won't.

The outlet in the front cover is the output to the oil cooler, you'll need this. You'll need a metric to -10 AN adapter.... I get them from Mazdatrix.

2) Use the DS pump to do all the work. ( If the pump is appropriate size, we'll get to that later )

You'll have to remove the stock pump, chain and front side housing pressure regulator by standing engine on it's back and removing the front cover. Very risky to do this with engine horizontal. (More detailed info if you decide to go this way)
Cap the outlet in the front cover. Plumb the outlet from the pressure stage of the DS pump to the oil cooler and from the cooler to the base of the rear side housing. Another metric to -10 AN adapter needed here.

Cap the hole you made in the plate to clear the front pressure regulator. Cap the hole you made in the plate for scavenge at the front left. Add the second scavenge port in the right rear corner of the plate.

Is the DS pump pressure stage at least 1.2" wide? If so, it's ok to use.


For screens you can fab screen domes that are brazed to a steel ring and bolted over the inlets, or buy inline units such as Earls pn 230310.

One item I forgot in the two options above is the oil metering system.
With option 1, the stock oil metering pump continues doing its job.
With option 2, you'll have to add oil premix to every gas fill-up or supply oil to the front housing by some other means after blocking the unused oil pump passages in the front side housing. Maybe back through the capped off stock oil cooler supply port in the front housing.

EDIT: I recalled incorrectly that the OMP got its oil supply through a passage in the front cover carrying the oil out to the cooler. Close, but no cigar. the passage actually goes close to the one I remembered, but continues on to the front side housing and steals some of the oil feeding the front e-shaft bearing. So, disregard any OMP consideration in options 1 or 2.

All stages are 1.2 wide on the pump.

As far as left turns go, wouldn't that sling the oil towards the front cover in the transverse setup I'm using?
The transaxle is on the left hand side, engine on the right hand side.

I intend to run premix, and will be keeping the stock OMP to supply oil on decel fuel cut if I can.
Not sure if it will clear the jackshaft or not yet.

The stock oil pump is being used for pressure duty mainly for reliability, in case the dry sump pump looses the belt.
I'm not going to run a gilmer/cog belt, and likely will just use a serpentine.

I have a few metric adapters I made for a Mercedes project a while back, and one of them fits the rear iron just purdy!
I may need to use the stock banjo fittings due to clearance issues, so I'll hold off ordering the front cover adapter.
I've also got the stock 1990 oil cooler from the RX-7, and intend to use it.

Thanks for the heads up on the Earls screens, they look to be an easy option!

_________________
Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

Yes, left turns would sling the oil towards the front cover. That's why I suggested placing the third port in the right rear corner of the plate (as it sits in your engine bay). I was accounting for the transverse orientation of the engine and it would thus be under the front cover as you indicated. I think we're on the same page.

I'm not certain that a serpentine belt will be able to transmit the torque required by the DS pump. But, if you've got some info that suggests it will, I'll defer.

I also use both premix and the OMP on my engine.