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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: October 1, 2019, 9:14 pm 
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Joined: March 30, 2011, 7:18 am
Posts: 1556
Location: central Arkansas
300D50 wrote:
I've got a 2008 Audi Q7 190A alternator on the way ... it's liquid cooled


That used to be the domain of seriously expensive industrial equipment.

There's a chart from AC Delco floating about the web that shows the output of automotive, marine, OTR, and industrial alternators. Something it mentions is that the rated output of alternators is *cold*. As the alternator warms up the amperage falls off sharply. And more sharply for the small-format modern alternators than for the old ones. Some of the 100 amp alternators would drop to 50A or less after a few minutes at full load.


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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: November 14, 2019, 1:04 pm 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
Posts: 449
Location: CNY
Nothing much new, winter and the time change/darker evenings hit like a dang mule and derailed my efforts a bit.

I'm going with a gilmer drive for the alternator and sump pump, I ordered in a cheap kit a few days after the alternator came in.
The ratios work out close to what I need, and the sump pump needs a gilmer anyways.

The original OAD (over-run clutch) on the alternator is getting turned down (Well, a new one is, but semantics) and press-fit into the bored out pulley from the kit.

One little "issue" is the Q7 alternator does not have computerized field control, so the ECU can't disengage it like the factory one.

I'm going to look into doing some surgery to the Q7 alt to breakout the field wiring and run a Mazda regulator.
Or just live with it the way it is.
The joy of custom stuff.

Still have yet to decide where I want to mount the alternator, but I'm leaning towards the existing top mount more and more.

A recent addition to my toolset is a bare bones china 3D printer, for those times when I want to turn 5+ hours into a plastic test part.


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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 7, 2020, 4:24 am 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
Posts: 449
Location: CNY
Progress was made.

I had switched from the 1990 front cover to the 2004 RXone for a multitude of reasons a while back
One among them to get rid of the CAS and go to trigger wheel , engine control, and all that lovely jazz from a 06 RX-8.

One of the sticking points is the RX-8 front hub was slightly shorter than the S5 one, so the e-shaft stuck out about 3mm.

That means the front bolt won't tighten, torrington bearings wouldn't get pre-loaded, bad times would be had by all.
I could have stuffed a spacer on and called it a day, but in the end I couldn't really see how I could do that and still seal the e-shaft safely.

The other option was to machine the S5 front hub to take the trigger wheel on the back side, to keep it in alignment with the sensor.

I didn't end up getting photos of the hub being machined, mainly because it's cast iron and made an absolute mess.

The back side had to OD brought down to match the front, up to the back face of the pulley flange.

The flange got shaved down from 12mm to 8mm thick off the front face, so the gilmer pulley could slip back a bit further. I couldn't machine further material off the flange without hitting the balance dimples.

I did start snapping photos as I bored the gilmer drive pulley back 0.05" to get a little bit more recess.
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Test-fit, seeing if I had a good seat.
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Trigger wheel bolted to the flange from the back side, using OE RX-8 pulley bolts.
Slipped into the pulley to verify that everything lines up.
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There's roughly 3mm gap between the trigger wheel and the edge of the pulley.
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Side-by-side, modified S5 front hub on the left, stock RX-8 on the right.
The trigger wheel is slightly lower, but that shouldn't cause any issues. I couldn't machine the flange to keep it flush without hitting the dimples andrisking the balance being off.
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The reduction in protrusion wasn't as much as I was hoping, being only 9mm shorter, but I now don't have to worry about belt slip, and can drive the dry sump pump.
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The threaded holes need to be chased, and then I can get longer flange bolts so I can hold the pulley on with nuts.


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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 7, 2020, 4:25 am 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
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Location: CNY
Also completed the alternator pulley on Monday, but work on it actually started back in October 2019, so some photos and steps were done out-of-order.
I've arranged them to best tell the narrative as if I was doing everything all in one shot.

2007/2008 Audi Q7 190A liquid cooled alternator with the OAD pulley removed.

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Back of same alternator.
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OAD chucked in the lathe, getting the serpentine ribs removed.
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Machined down to 48mm (1.890").
Not shown is flipping and bringing down the other side.
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Trimmed the back of the gilmer pulley to release the guide flange.
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The pulley was bored out to 1.888" (~47.95mm)
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Gilmer pulley went into the toaster oven on max broil convection for an hour, which is roughly 500°F
OAD went into a 3°F freezer for the same time.
I had two smaller sections of aluminum plate that I sat on top of the gilmer pulley in the oven, to get a little more thermal mass.
Likewise with the larger plate below, that was out in 30° weather before it came in.

Slid in like a dream, just had to lean on it slightly to get it cozy.
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I went flush because I can vary the spacing by machining down the spacer ring that slips over the alternator shaft.
That needs to be done anyways to account for belt alignment, so might as well allow for the maximum adjustment.

Now to get the front cover trimmed down to fit the alternator.


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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 8, 2020, 12:55 am 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
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Location: CNY
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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 9, 2020, 1:39 am 
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Time to make the centering bushing.
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11.5mm OD, 8.03mm ID
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Parted off and ready to machine the front face.
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Forgot to take a final shot before pressing it in.
Had to give the hole in the casting a quick zip with a 29/64 drill to clear up some draft angle before things could proceed.

Pressed in.
I used one of the alternator bolts and a nut to draw it in, and like a dope forgot to put a sacrificial washer in place.
Oh well nobody will see it in use.
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One might wonder why I removed material from the mount just to put it back with the bushing.
Simple reason is, I didn't know exactly how much needed to be removed till I had everything mounted up and shimmed.
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I left the bushing a few mm short so that I can potentially press it out down the road.
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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 10, 2020, 2:11 am 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
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Location: CNY
Dry Sump Pump Pulley Time!

One of the pumps I bought came with a 28 tooth L profile pulley, 1" wide.
The gilmer kit I bought uses an L profile belt that's 1.5" wide. E-shaft pulley is 34 tooth, and a water pump pulley in 28 tooth.

Ideally, you're not supposed to to run a dry sump pump over ~5000RPM due to the chance of cavitation, but since I'm not running a pressure stage I think I can get away with running it faster.

I decided to turn the worn and beaten up dirt car pump pulley into a hub I could bolt the waterpump pulley to.
Reason is, it already has setscrew holes drilled and tapped, is bored to fit the pump shaft, and has the keyway broached.

I used the pump shaft as a mandrel when machining, because it was simple and ensured concentricity.
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Trimmed off the pulley, leaving the web and hub.
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I turned the hub boss down to 1.000" (The pump is SAE, and 1" worked.) and skimmed the web into a flange surface.
I believe the flange OD came out to 3" but it wasn't critical so I didn't put much thought into it
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The back side of the flange was skimmed to clean it up a bit, in case I decided to mount anything to the opposite side. I left the sweeping radius intact to reduce stress risers.
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I didn't take any photos of boring the centering ring on the waterpump pulley out to a slip fit on the hub.
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No threaded holes yet, they're going to be zipped in on the FADAL tomorrow.
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In case you're wondering, the grime that's getting all over is primarily powdered graphite from a different job that was ran on the lathe, plus ultrafine cast iron dust, and WD-40.


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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 10, 2020, 11:58 pm 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
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Hub fixtured in.
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44mm bolt circle punched. Holes are 5mm.
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Threaded M6x1.
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Mocking up. Good thing I waited to do the sump plate, I would have had some interference problems where the pump was slated to mount.
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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 12, 2020, 1:10 am 
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Joined: August 11, 2013, 6:03 am
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Location: CNY
Small reward to myself for making progress.
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Pulleys line up nicely.
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The 30" belt that came with the kit is too short for this setup.
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Getting there.
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I ended up cutting the 30" belt and using it to measure out for a new one.
The minimum length appears to be 44.5" with the pump tight to the keg.
The closest "standard" belt size was a 45" sold by Jegs.
Ordered one up, should be in by Friday.

Now I need to put some more time into CAD on the dry sump plate, aided by the foam board.


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 Post subject: Re: The GWTFFM
PostPosted: January 13, 2020, 12:28 pm 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 4114
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Nice work - very impressive stuff.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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