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PostPosted: October 2, 2017, 2:18 am 
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Omaha Vette Graveyard wrote:
That's why it's important that it's a substantial engine setback. It makes a huge difference, like a 10 percent change in weight distribution (50/50 vs. 60/40)...
So having the engine >99% (just not 100%) behind the front axle is NOT 'substantial' setback, such that it's most accurately lumped in with having the engine entirely overhanging in front of the axle centerline?...And that moving the engine back 2mm so that the front edge of it goes from being 1mm in front of the axle centerline to 1mm behind the axle centerlilne makes a like a 10% change in weight distribution? :P :wink:

Seriously, you are directly implying that there is less difference separating the effects an engine being 100% in front of (0% behind) the axle centerline from <1% in front of (>99% behind) the axle centerline (>99% variation), than there is separating the effects an engine being >99% behind the axle centerline from 100% behind the axle centerline (<1% variation). You don't think it would be more accurate and make more sense for the two "distinct categories" to be similar in scope?





KB58 wrote:
I much rather hear a discussion about how many pixies can be put on the head of a pin.
Knock yourself out. :roll:
https://forums.catholic.com/t/how-many-angels-can-fit-on-the-head-of-a-pin/159344

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PostPosted: October 2, 2017, 8:38 am 
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Thank you for your advice.
My guess is that on a subject like this (and many others) personal opinions can be argued until the cows come home.
I was aware of of all these red buttons down here when I wrote my thread.
I have been on this list for more than 10 years and I would say that to be able to argue even the most obscure technical details is.... very much part of the... FUN. :cheers:


It is very much part of the fun, and I meant that truly as an observation that one must draw there own conclusions. I have always found 914s faster in corners than 911s to be interesting, and have always attributed it to mid vs rear engine, but I will admit I have never spent any more time on it. Like anything I am sure there are more factors at play.


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PostPosted: October 2, 2017, 12:11 pm 
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I have always found 914s faster in corners than 911s to be interesting, and have always attributed it to mid vs rear engine, but I will admit I have never spent any more time on it.


Could be lots of things. Maybe 911 driver's have higher maintenance girlfriends, so consequently they are just either worn out or beaten down by the time they show up at the track.

Really a big factor here is how the rules are written. The rules have much to do with who wins. I remember a driver in our local club that won a national championship in a Corvette. Every year he won they added 50 lbs. to the weight of his car. When he stopped winning they decided "the rules must be right now". He was a little bitter about that. The floor of his car was made from boiler plate...

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PostPosted: October 2, 2017, 12:28 pm 
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Driven5 wrote:

KB58 wrote:
I much rather hear a discussion about how many pixies can be put on the head of a pin.
Knock yourself out. :roll:
https://forums.catholic.com/t/how-many-angels-can-fit-on-the-head-of-a-pin/159344

Pixies, sir, pixies. You're doing great knocking yourself out on this.

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PostPosted: October 2, 2017, 12:58 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
You're doing great knocking yourself out on this.
Considering the source, I'll take that as a compliment.

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PostPosted: October 3, 2017, 9:33 am 
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Driven5 wrote:
KB58 wrote:
You're doing great knocking yourself out on this.
Considering the source, I'll take that as a compliment.


:lol:

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PostPosted: October 6, 2017, 9:02 pm 
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All definitions become more arbitrary as the examples get closer to the line of definition.

That's how it works in the world.

Things in our world are not all the same, and we have different names for different things. It makes the world more intelligible.

I like it that I can talk about snow vs. rain and everybody knows what I'm talking about. That there are some types of precipitation that challenge the definitions is okay with me. It's still nice to have different words for rain and snow.

I like having front engine vs. front-mid engine. When I use one of those terms, everybody knows what I'm talking about. That there are some vehicles that challenge the line of definition is okay with me. It's nice to have different names for different things.

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PostPosted: October 7, 2017, 10:33 am 
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Mid-engine Vette, right?


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PostPosted: October 7, 2017, 1:15 pm 
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Yep, front mid.

And damn sexy.

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PostPosted: October 7, 2017, 4:00 pm 
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Mine is mid-front engine too. Engine is about 20" behind front axle. At 368lbs, the engine weighs less than 2 chubby guys

I think the Citroen SM was advertised as front - mid (not 100% sure as i was only about 2 yrs old)


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PostPosted: October 7, 2017, 5:01 pm 
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The Citroen SM like the DS and most front wheel drives Citroen built since WW2 (except the 2CV, 3CV and some other air cooled front 4 cylinders models) would be called today front mid engine, engine behind the transmission:

https://petrolicious.com/marketplace/1972-citroen-sm

For the record my original thread was meant to be a discussion of mid engine cars (meaning mainly rear engines as Ford GT 40) and conventional rear engines as in Porsches. Somehow the conversation drifted. Which is fine, regardless. :cheers:


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PostPosted: October 8, 2017, 8:08 am 
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Personally I think the discussion is about weight distribution rather than engine placement, although the engine is typically the heaviest thing in the car.

Most agree that the ideal weight distribution is around 40/60 both mid or rear engine can typically achieve this. Other large contributing factors are polar momentum and center of gravity. Typically the mid engine is going to have lower polar momentum (good thing). Center of gravity should be similar.

There are lots of other factors in the car but if both have the same weight distribution and similar performance characteristics the Mid rear will have the advantage in turning around corners. The rear engine however is typically better at braking and accelerating.

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PostPosted: October 9, 2017, 4:19 pm 
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Not just weight distribution, but polar inertia. My Locost will rotate if you just think about it. I had it corner weighted right after I built it, and without me in the car WD was 48/52 F/R. With me in the car it's got to be better. In any case the car will out-corner everything I've ever owned.


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PostPosted: October 9, 2017, 7:06 pm 
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I managed to get my weight distribution to 57% on the rear at 1760lbs with driver. Since going on a diet I have a little over 54% but i am down to 1640lbs with driver.

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PostPosted: October 10, 2017, 1:34 am 
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wrightcomputing wrote:
...57% on the rear at 1760lbs with driver. Since going on a diet I...am down to 1640lbs with driver.
Whoa! That's some diet, dude! Seriously, 120 pounds?

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