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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1532
Location: meadview arizona
so here are the parameters of my next build.
two seater.
classic styling lotus 23 body
alford and alder front uprights and brakes.
vw irs trans
vw air cooled engine
thunderbird rear uprights with escort/focus hubs
chassis, lotus 23 look alike, braised.

this will be used for mostly autocross but being an old fart, i want to look kool driving it even if i'm not kool and i'm english so a 23 is a given.

the area that i will need help from this band of brothers is in the rear uprights, i have looked at all types of upright, 5 days on the net, i even fabricated the ones on my last build but i want something that is light and has the offset needed in this type of car and is replacable should it get damaged.

enter the t-bird uprights!

it appears that the bearing in the t-bird upright is 76mm o/d X 42mm i/d X 39mm thick so now we have to get from the vw transaxle flange to a 4 stud X 41/4" pcd hub flange as used on say a ford focus or escort front.

the hub seems to be the place to start, if we can come up with a driveshaft that will fit in a t-bird bearing and take a focus/escort hub we are well on the way, alternativly, does anyone know the o/d of a focus/escort front wheel bearing as this may be a direct fit in the t-bird upright and allow the drive shaft to go straight in?

this is really the only sticking point in the build, the flanges on the transaxle can be changed to a bigger bolt patterns so that would be simpler to do and i'm not worried about that end, it's just the hub.

why the ford 41/4" bolt pattern you ask? well it's a standard in formular ford although not on a 23 which used 6 studs at the rear and i can get matching hubs for the front, also the wheels are available in 13"

i intend to upgrade the front brakes with the canley kit when i change the bolt pattern.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Last edited by john hennessy on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Location: Glendale AZ
Go gettam! :cheers:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:41 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Vancouver, BC
On the Lotus 23 Yahoo Group, there is a DXF file of a replica 23 that gives a ton of info. Its not a 100% correct 23, but it does use the VW trans and has the front uprights drawn in (although they are of the early Herald type with bolt on caliper mounts and not the later Spit type). I can send it to you if needed in either a CAD file or a PDF, if you dont want to spend time searching.

Cheers,
Rod


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
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Location: SoCal
If it's to be driven on the street, and you've already seen an authentic 23 in-person, I'll mail you my Man Card because you've earned it. I'm not kidding when I say that a 23 will be virtually invisible to SUVs - they will NOT be able to see you if you're closer than 50 ft or so.

For the track I think it's an awesome choice, but not for the street as it goes way over the line on what's visible.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:49 pm
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Location: Raleigh-Durham NC
KB58 wrote:
If it's to be driven on the street, and you've already seen an authentic 23 in-person, I'll mail you my Man Card because you've earned it. I'm not kidding when I say that a 23 will be virtually invisible to SUVs - they will NOT be able to see you if you're closer than 50 ft or so.

For the track I think it's an awesome choice, but not for the street as it goes way over the line on what's visible.


You should try riding a bicycle in Texas or Detroit urban traffic... after that, anything seems safe by comparison!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:40 am
Posts: 532
John,

Congratulations on your new project. One of my favorite cars.

Back in 1995 at the Stoneleigh Kit Car show I picked up a brochure for Lee Noble's remake of the 23 . See cover page below.

Thought you might find some useful info/ideas in it. I have a scanned (PDF) copy but its too big to attach here, even if zipped. If you like, send me a PM with your email address. I should be able to attach/send the PDF via email.

Keep us all posted on your progress.


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Noble 23 Brochure - front page.jpg
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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1532
Location: meadview arizona
Rod, i would appreciate that in pdf, look at my profile and see my e-mail address.

geek, likewise in london

KB, fortunately the only city that i may drive it in is las vegas but there you can go anywhere on the freeway, no crowded streets with trucks but it is not intended for street use, unless there is a race event on the street like long beach that would let me in.

i have a locost for the street, when i've built a racer, then all i need is a hotrod for car shows ( come to think of it, i do have a 34 ford roadster body in the loft) still a man can't have everything or can he?

Tom, go to my profile and e-mail it to me, thanks

B85, judgeing by the helmet, it looks like graham hill?

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1532
Location: meadview arizona
o.k. down to the nitty gritty,

as i said i need to find a way of fitting an escort/focus hub flange into a t-bird upright has anyone used the t-bird upright or the focus upright

do you know the bearing sizes?

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Glendale AZ
Yep! Thats the MAN! He's the man. What a MAN! LOL :cheers:



john hennessy wrote:
Rod, i would appreciate that in pdf, look at my profile and see my e-mail address.

geek, likewise in london

KB, fortunately the only city that i may drive it in is las vegas but there you can go anywhere on the freeway, no crowded streets with trucks but it is not intended for street use, unless there is a race event on the street like long beach that would let me in.

i have a locost for the street, when i've built a racer, then all i need is a hotrod for car shows ( come to think of it, i do have a 34 ford roadster body in the loft) still a man can't have everything or can he?

Tom, go to my profile and e-mail it to me, thanks

B85, judgeing by the helmet, it looks like graham hill?

_________________
American 7 5.0 T5
Lotus 15 ish?
908-3 Sti.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Location: Glendale AZ
scale in lower coner.


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American 7 5.0 T5
Lotus 15 ish?
908-3 Sti.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:40 am
Posts: 532
john hennessy wrote:
o.k. down to the nitty gritty,

as i said i need to find a way of fitting an escort/focus hub flange into a t-bird upright has anyone used the t-bird upright or the focus upright

do you know the bearing sizes?
John, check with Stu at http://www.irsmachining.com/ He's in the business of modifying T-Bird uprights and might be able to help you with the data or mods needed to fit the right flange.

_________________
Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1532
Location: meadview arizona
so todays lesson is:-

how to get a hub from a vw beetle irs into a ford thunderbird rear upright.

first,remove the bearings and seals from the vw hub.

cut the bearing carrier from the vw swing arm.

then grind off all the bits left over from the cutting torch.

press out the hub of the t-bird upright, not easy.

remove the circlip and press out the bearing and seals.

now on the outside edge of the t-bird upright where the bearing came from, there is a lip which you must remove until you have a plain hole the size of the bearing all the way through the upright. this can be machined or removed with a die grinder, be careful with the latter.

now to the vw hub, note that the hub lfange is not at right angles to the main body of the hub, it is at an angle, remember when you insert this into the t-bird upright as you will want the flange to give you a negative camber.
i do not know if this is due to poor machining or done on purpose, so check that both sides are the same. i suggest negative camber but you may want positive camber, either is more deirable than toe. also note that the hub is tapered.

next, measure the hole in the upright, then put the vw hub in a lathe and turn the o/d to be a press fit into the upright, this will give you a hub that you can press into the upright, press it in all the way to the flange, note on the inside that the hub appears too small for the hole due to the taper.

fabricate a plate to fit over the hub on the inside of the upright, there should be about 3/16" of hub sticking through the upright drill the plate to attach to the original t-bird backing plate bolts. note that you may have to spot the holes to get a flat surface to bolt to.

insert the bolts from the inside of the upright, now carefully braize the plate to the spigot of the hub, being carefull not to damage the lip on the hub.

now you have a vw hub in a t-bird rear upright, what good is that you say, well now you can fit a budget vw disc brake kit to the vw hub, the bonus is you can get the hub/disc with several bolt patterns or indeed no bolt holes at all and drill to suit what ever you want. the discs even come drilled. or like me you may want to spring for a CNC kit and redrill the ally hubs to a ford 4 stud pattern as in formula ford.

this was done to facilitate the use of stock vw drive shafts as i am using a vw transaxle, now everything is a bolt together setup.

i will add pictures as i can.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1532
Location: meadview arizona
after studying the vw engine option, the cost is as hi as fitting a ford 4 cylinder and to make the power of a lima will streatch the budget even more so i think the adapter cost is worth the money and i'm going ford, what ford is the question, definatly not duratec but lima, pinto, cvh even, we shall cross that bridge when we come to it, it all depends on the flywheel to crank bolt patterns for an adapter.

i got some 1 3/4 ally bar yesterday to make the bushings for the t-bird uprights, but i have been side tracked because i got the carpet for my last car yesterday so that has to be done first.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:49 pm
Posts: 1022
Location: Raleigh-Durham NC
I know that USF2000 Championship as well as at least one other SCCA class runs with the Mazda 2.3. However, I was always put off with the cost of a gearbox for such a build. I'm watching what you do "with great interest."


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:15 am
Posts: 762
Location: Cave Creek, AZ
john hennessy wrote:
and i'm going ford, what ford is the question, definatly not duratec but lima, pinto, cvh even, we shall cross that bridge when we come to it, it all depends on the flywheel to crank bolt patterns for an adapter.

.


John,

I have this 2.3 short block (no head) that has one non moving piston that came out of a Merkur XR4Ti. If you want it it's yours if you decide on the Lima. Probably have a flywheel also that you can have.

Tom

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Sometimes, I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.


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