LocostUSA.com

i am pretty understanding to the most part on how im going to build the frame. i have 2 ways about going with it but both will need a swingarm for a single wheel with a large width but im unclear totally on going about building it. I know and read alot on using stock swingarms that the bearings are not strong enough for the side forces of turning so i need to figure out a way of running it to last some punishment on the track yet reliable to drive on a long weekend ride... the powerplant that i have decided on is going to be an zx10 or R1 platform due to the power to weight ratio.

1) idea is i am thinking of running an 3wd setup.. running the stock transmission via chain to a sprocket with an offset sprocket to run down the middle of the frame in a safety tunnel to the front using an chain to provide power to the front wheels. Then off another sprocket back to the rear wheel to give full traction to all wheels and not need an large tire in the rear for good traction

2) idea is to just run single wheel in the rear but run a extra large wheel around maybe 15 inchs wide to give a nice footprint in the rear for traction.

either way i need to design a good swingarm.. and i have an idea in mind.. but unsure how he went about running his cause i couldnt find any good info on the building of the rear swingarm or i just overlooked it on his build pages..

the other idea i had was running a driveshaft instead of chain to the front and use a stock ATV front differential since there really cheap to be found used and new. But i am unsure on how to run the power to the rear wheel and front wheels in this method.. i just started to brainstorm on this idea... as the only idea i have come to mind is using an atv transmission since it has an driveshaft and chain split for the front and rear differentials.

Just the thing for drags, not so hot for cornering. If you stiffen the front end enough to keep body roll from influencing the rear tire contact patch, you get a severely stiff ride. There's a guy in Creswell making econotrikes (the Bug E, the Gizmo, various electrothon racers) with rigid antisway bars, the vehicles ride flat but comfort and front end traction are compromised.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

what makes this not track around a corner well?? im not understanding this...if the motor is in the rear and the weight is pivoting to the rear it should allow most of the weight to apply traction to the rear and just allow the front to steer the momentum... the main reason i want to go with the 3 wheel tryke concept is because i have talked to the dmv and my insurance and a few others also in my state and they basically told me i needed a million and half things on the vehicle if its has more then 3 wheels.. and the insurance company was willing to insure the custom bike compared to a custom car..

heck if it does turn out the be that kind of issue.. could you just mod it to allow slip or bolt on track bars like how they have for dragsters to keep them from lifting up the front.. you just make them bolt or slide in the rear swingarm and stick maybe 1 or 2 feet out.. or better yet make them pivot and add a stabilizer system to each side so it apply small amount of pressure to the road surface?? how about that?? i know it sounds kinda ghetto but it could work.. when you enter a corner and the back starts to roll in the corner the track bar would kinda keep it from rolling to far with applied pressure against the surface..

i was trying to understand the traction loss you were saying on the internet and i ran across this..
http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm
the tilting suspension idea is really interesting.. i wander how hard it is to copy...

i recommend starting with a bit more research. heres a couple of the multitudes of existing ones
O.S.C.A.R. project
detalidon
xr3 hybrid
grinnell motorcars
tri-magnum
some designs even lean into the corners.
i recommend not bothering with the 3wd concept, the complexities and drivetrain losses add up quickly and these, just like a locost, gain more benefit from lightness than brute force. fastest on track day is also usually more a factor of how quickly you go around a corner not terminal velocity. sure a tesarossa is nice but whats the point if i can't give it room to open up?
i've attached a couple of photo's for you, one a current available kit and the other made using a citroen as a suspension/transmission donor and a bmw powerplant.

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

easiest way is to use a z bar instead of an anti-sway bar.

_________________
"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

what is the advantage of putting the motor in front of the wheels like that.. i would think it would get nose heavy in the corners....

Another idea me and friend just want to throw around is turning the motor sideways and mount it in the rear and running a drive-shaft directly off the bike tranny going to the front in a small tunnel and use a small differential.. like on independent rear suspension systems. i have seen ATV differentials take a beating and hold up cause my buddy races them as a hobby and there are some high dollar high HP ATV's out there...

The advantage is weight distribution, with a trike you want equal weight on each of the wheels to decrease your likelihood of tipping. If you go with rear engine you need to make sure you have enough weight on the front end to keep from lifting in a corner.

In regards to your initial question of swingarm, a 15" wide wheel/tire combo may be overkill depending on the final weight. There have been a couple discussions here about swingarm designs for trikes. Dig around a little more and you'll find them. There are also Yahoo groups and other forums for reverse trikes that will have more info as well. Keep reading and welcome to the insanity

The other very important reason is cooling. It is an air cooled motor and gets very nice cool air there. no ducting, no electric fans required. Its location shoud make it real easy for service too, but I'm sure that was not the reason. However, this particular kit car was made this way to resemble cars of the 20's and 30's. Made in both 3 and 4 wheel versions. Not bad looking from the front. Absolutly turned off by the rear "spare tire" look. As for trikes, I don't know diddly. You are on your own there (with the help of the other posters.)

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

Remember, you don't have 4 wheels so no two are just along for the ride and keeping the vehicle upright. You realistically need all three wheels to be carrying load at all times, even during the most extreme cornering. As to wider tires not helping cornering, the rear contact patch will be pivoting an equal amount to the body roll...The wider the flat area a tire has, the more dramatically it loses its contact patch when angled sideways.

Dynamically trikes are very different than cars. And since they haven't been developed as extensively as 4-wheelers, there still is really no concensus as to the "best" way to build one...However there are still definitely some rules (of physics) that must be adhered to in order to have a vehicle that is neither dangerous or deadly. As such I would recommend doing much more research before moving too far forward with your design. A few good places to start your searches are:

http://reversetrike.com/home.html
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/reversetrike/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/rtdiy/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tilting/
http://reversetrike.proboards.com/

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

i think i am going to design a basic trike setup similar to pooks design and see were it goes from there.. i am not going to be doing competition racing so this will not need professional handling power.. if things dont work out then i could just build another frame increasing my skills.. but before i do anything im going to play around with different things in CAD program.... one of the guys at work that built the frame for his dragster funny car is letting me barrow his copy of Autocad Inventor.. he said it makes building the frame simple.. and helps you improve things by giving recommendations due to stress test and such it has in the program.. i never used it before so we will see how it works out for me.. he said he will help me out as he studied into it some already...
I am not in a rush to build this project as i want to find a 2008 or newer donor bike.. and the longer i wait really the easier and cheaper they will become..

Storx,
The appeal of designing a chassis from scratch is very tempting, but, without the knowlege, you may end up making mistakes that somebody else has made.
There´s plenty of knowledge floating around in The Net, I would suggest reading as much as possible before starting the build.
It costs pretty much the same to build a well designed car than a lousy design, and the first will be prettier (most likely), more fun probably faster and above SAFER!!.


Even if you are not going to be racing, you want to maximize traction, acceleration and turning ability as these are paramount to safety.
Lets say you are on the limit of traction on a corner and you encounter oil, or water, then you lose the rear end...
You are not racing, but traction is as important as if you were...



A build is a long endeavour, the frame being a very small altough not less important piece of the build, but once you have the frame, it is not fun altering it, then you are better off learning as much as possible before cutting metal.
This will not warrant (sp?) a trouble free build, but an enjoyable and fulfilling one knowing you have done your homework.

HTH.
AA

3WD? Really!?! Do you know of any motor cycles running 2wd? Anything other than trikes running 2wd? There a company in Utah...and "Ural motorcycles" that runs 2wd that is all I know of..... Why?, because of cost and complexity!

Cup 20 was FWD
GX3 was RWD
Sub 3 is RWD mid engined
Morgan, liberty motors, and Black Jack are Front engined RWD
Shrike, T-rex, and gindell is Mid/rear Engined RWD
Messerschmidt rear engined RWD
Merlin is front engined FWD
...but nobody powers front and rear wheels!


Some rock crawlers rotate a Saturn motor and transmission 90 degree and use the drive shafts to power the front and rear axles. A BMW motorcycle rear end with a custom wide rim might work but probably might not stand the latitudinal forces that street of track driving could put on it!




http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/05/its- ... s-the-gx3/
http://www.inmygarage.com/?p=1425
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/10/what ... ee-wheels/
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/ ... uki-power/
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=727&hilit=+trike
http://unitas.lunarpages.com/~norton2/shrike.htm
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=884&hilit=+trike
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3662&hilit=+trike
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3198&hilit=+trike
http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4711&hilit=trike
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9062&p=94026&hilit=reverse+trike#p94026
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7038&hilit=reverse+trike
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4108&hilit=+reverse+trike
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4055&hilit=+reverse+trike
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6639&hilit=+reverse+trike
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6099&hilit=+reverse+trike
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2483&hilit=+reverse+trike

So if you search for "trikes" you will get over 48 pages as of today. If you search for "reverse trikes" you will get 10 pages of results. Read some more and decide what you want before you spend any money or waste any ones time....

You sound like a dreamer....but I gave you some love anyway.

_________________
I'll keep an eye out for you!

To err is human...
I am more human than most.

Pretty important to read this http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm before settling on anything. I wouldn't build a rear engined reverse trike. They're OK if all you want to do is smoky donuts in a parking lot, but the disadvantages outweigh any of that fun in my opinion.