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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:35 am 
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http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/upd ... ml#nextcar

Looks interesting. :) I'm glad to see more options out there.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:31 pm 
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This is probably the smartest thing I've seen a small volume car company do ever. I am drooling at the prospect of a car designed by a bunch of car geeks. I could rattle on about how positive it is to see something like this and how smart it is to expand ones design and marketing departments by opening up the base design specifications, but read this book if you're interested in the economics, benefits and downsides of open collaboration:

http://www.wikinomics.com/book/

-Steve

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:09 pm 
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That's really interesting, I have a perfect donor already, I'll certainly be watching their progress. Of course Pook already has a headstart on them as far as a subaru powered middy kit.
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9904


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:05 am 
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Glen wrote:
That's really interesting, I have a perfect donor already, I'll certainly be watching their progress. Of course Pook already has a headstart on them as far as a subaru powered middy kit.
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9904


Thanks for the link. I have read that thread before, but I had no idea he was a couple miles from my house. :cheers:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Sven wrote:
This is probably the smartest thing I've seen a small volume car company do ever. I am drooling at the prospect of a car designed by a bunch of car geeks. I could rattle on about how positive it is to see something like this and how smart it is to expand ones design and marketing departments by opening up the base design specifications, but read this book if you're interested in the economics, benefits and downsides of open collaboration:

http://www.wikinomics.com/book/

-Steve


Great book.

With this though, they are looking to get collaboration of just the bodywork / exterior. All chassis from what I read will be designed by FFR.
I'm a bit surprised that they'd go with a Subaru drive train and then drop it to 2wd. Seems like picking an ecotec motor or something of the sort would have been a better start. Use a cobalt motor, gives you a pretty wide range of power levels through the vehicle range stock. Also the SS cobalt's have a lot of factory support for high HP.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Dilbert based upon responses at all the other forums using the Subie engine was a stroke of genius. It seems that only on this forum is anyone's nose turned up to the subie engine.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:42 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:
Dilbert based upon responses at all the other forums using the Subie engine was a stroke of genius. It seems that only on this forum is anyone's nose turned up to the subie engine.


From reading a bit more I see there was a couple years that there was a FWD only version, and you can convert the tranny to be FWD only. There is a ton of resources for the boxer engines also, and their low height would probably be great to keep weight low. I'll hold off any other comments till you see it further along. FFR from my understanding has a great reputation, and if they can basically provide a lower priced kit to get more people in the door, they may be able to up sell to the same people another pricier kit in the future.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:48 pm 
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I'm extatic about the idea. Having a longitudinally mounted mid-engine it shares configuration with only a few elite relatives, Ferrari's, Lambo's, (a couple) Porsches, and a hand full of others. If I were building a locost or similar vehicle again, it would definitely be a mid-engined Subie.

IMHO the WRX is a fantastic choice because:
Very robust and reliable
Lots of salvage cars out there because SO many 'boy racers' buy then promptly wreck them
Awesome aftermarket support
Capable of huge power
Quirky boxer sound (personally I like the warble...)
Mid-engine RWD gives a low polar moment of inertia. (A terribly overused 'automotive journalist buzz word', but in this case, justified)

I'm also a fan of converting it over to a 2wd-rear. A decent 5 or 6 speed tranny for a longitudinal mounting position as most know, is hard to come by, and expensive. FFR had to partner and design a gearbox from scratch at substantial cost because there just aren't enough used 911 trannys out there to meet demand for their LS based GTM. - the WRX-middie has a built-in solution! And with a curb weight around 1800# one should be able to tweak the power up over 300 hp/ ft-lbs before having any problems.

If I were to build a subie-middie from scratch with a body it would cost me over $10k not including the thousands of hours of time.
In a couple years, I could see me selling the locost to buy one of these kits.
I can't wait to see what the winning body design looks like.

I've seen the FFR products in person at SEMA over the past few years and I'm impressed with the quality and focus on what makes it go fast as well as holding to their guns to keep the fit and finish reasonable.

Count me as a fan, and potential buyer! 8) :lol:

-heck, maybe I'll get nuts and submit a design concept of my own. Maybe the winner will get a free kit. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:25 am 
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If you didn't use a Subaru, then you could put in a huge variety of motors. That seems like a big advantage. I think Kurt got that right with the Midlana...

On a Subaru you can't run the transaxle upside down, so the motor and the car too can't be lowered very much. That's a plus with the Porche transaxles, you can lower the motor 6 inches and the car as much as you can get away with when you flip the unit upside down. Two different point, I know.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:08 am 
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I built a GTM, not really all it was cracked up to be. FFR is a company that really think their kits all the way through. To be honest they screwed up the suspension geometry completely (whoever designed it thought 0 degrees of caster made sense). On paper the GTM was an amazing idea but there were far too many bugs in the build for a $20k kit. Ended up being maybe $80k finished and it's no fun to drive.


edit: On top of that I'm not sure why everyone is so excited about using the boxer engine. It weighs as much as an ls6.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:09 pm 
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ffrgtm wrote:
edit: On top of that I'm not sure why everyone is so excited about using the boxer engine. It weighs as much as an ls6.

No way, a WRX EJ205 with just the A/C compressor and intercooler removed (stright from the engine bay onto the scale) weighs ~320#, an LSX in similar trim is probably 1.5X that from what I've seen. How about cost, I can't image a complete LS6 swap is cheap.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:26 am 
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An ls6 weighs 297 lbs... about 20-30lbs off of a 13b. With torque tube and transaxle its 450.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:48 am 
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wjfawb0

Now they are talking about a car that even I would go to the bank for, and that ain't too often. I just love everything about Subaru. I even have a EA 81 Subaru engine on a stand in my shop just to look at. Was once going to put it on back a Dominator gyrocopter but thats another long story. Subaru's Rock is all I have to say and Factory Five has gotten my attention now!


Mark.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:27 am 
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ffrgtm wrote:
An ls6 weighs 297 lbs... about 20-30lbs off of a 13b. With torque tube and transaxle its 450.

Without a picture of a complete LS6 on a scale I don't believe it. That's less than a all-aluminum 4-cylinder 2.4 liter Honda engine.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:40 am 
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horizenjob wrote:
If you didn't use a Subaru, then you could put in a huge variety of motors. That seems like a big advantage. I think Kurt got that right with the Midlana....

Thanks. That was the issue: design the car around a Subi engine and force the builder to use only that, or design it for transverse FWD 4-cylinder engines and let them use one of 1000s of different powerplants. However, for what the FFR car is (or will be) it's a great solution.

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