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From a roadtrip/daily driver standpoint, I would say the stalker would win, hands down... start in second gear, lower all around gearing, tons of torque means not having to wind it out to take a trip to the grocery store... not that its much use for hauling groceries...lol! I dunno... I like torque...

I would disagree due to the superior ride quality you'll no doubt find in the Ultralite vs. the heavy solid rear axle in the Stalker. The IRS and SRA may perfrom equally good on a flat smooth airport tarmac or race track, but once on the "rear roads" the IRS will shine. Also, take 1000lbs off an S2000 and drive it and tell me it needs more torque. With street tires, in a vehicle this light you already have more than you need and wheelspin is blip of the throttle away with much less torque than the S2000 engine makes.

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He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

just my humble opinion but i'd go with stalker. but i like torque more than high strung 4cyl. then again i'd love a 9k rpm 3 rotor turbo rotary. but thats not this discussion.

i agree that you should try and drive both and see your personal preference. i'm not a solid rear axle fan but that can be modified to IRS if thats the only deal breaker. neither one is likely to be perfect but if you enjoy one more than the other than run with it. and you should know yourself well enough to know what you like in a drivetrain.
torque vs. high rpms, roomy interior vs. small and cramped, etc. etc. i ride a V-twin sportbike(suzuki SV) because i didnt want the constant shifting of an inline 4, and i liked the 'heavy' steering as light steering on most sportbikes equate to twitchy to me.

also i know this will probably be debated but if you might modify whichever car the, the stalker i think wins for parts availabilty and price. i know there is a lot of parts for a s2k but there are even more for gm parts and most will be substanstially cheaper. engine rebuild cost less even though it has 2 extra cyls, rear end has more gear and lsd options than you can ever want, most parts store will have parts it wont be a special order for eveything. then again i live 45 mins from Summit Racing though so maybe its just my point of view. and on average a forced induction motor will have easier power gains than na. i.e. change pully for more boost.

i'm obviously stated a little biased towards the stalker. i've never owned either though and i'm building a locost with a mitsu 4cyl turbo so what do i know

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-honda ... ccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-98-99 ... ccessories

maybe this could be a deciding factor, not to mention interchangeability of parts within the brand... injectors, ecu, mechanical bits...

I've driven Supras, Miatas and well set-up fbodies and I have to say I prefer the feel of the "lra" in the f body...

Part of me wants to agree with you. The other part says '160 ft lbs isn't exactly anemic in a 1200 lb car!'

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JSullivan

all the japanese cars i've driven vs. f-bodies or mustangs always felt more planted in the front end and not too noticable of a difference in the rear.of course that wouldnt matter in a 7-based chassis. i've never given a "live rear axle" car a good flogging though so it might show up more at that point. of course if you plan on behaving on bumpy public roads and only put into it on the track a person probably wouldnt notice a whole lot then either.


and i would want to agree but the miata based 7 i drove wasnt that impressive after riding a sportbike or a turbo 4cyl or big v8. i realize the miata 7 is down some torque from 160ft lbs and weighed a little more than 1200lbs but in 'seat of the pants' feel, torque is a function of gearing and can swap out 3.42 gears for 3.73 or 4.10 and even the 13" race slicks and really feel the difference.

of course some people like to drive around at 7000 rpm and still have revs to go. most my friends strangely enough. just not my thing. i'm happy to shift by then

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

Agreed. I got a ride in my brother's Super Stalker and during a trip through the neighborhood, there was an asphalt strip across the road, about 3/4" high. When we hit that it felt like someone hit the bottom of my seat with a big hammer, it was brutal. When my brother drove my IRS-equiped Kimini, my brother was stunned that he hardly felt the bump at all.

There's always an argument about which is better for handling, live axle or IRS. However, the other 99% of the time - when just cruising on the street - the superior sprung-to-unsprung weight ratio of IRS really shines, as Chetcpo notes.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Having spent a lot of quality time behind the wheel of the Ultralite I'll chime in as well and say the torque is more than adequate. As a matter of fact it made a believer of me that you would PREFER a lower torque higher revving engine in one of these cars to help you control it.

It is extremely easy to break the rear tires loose in any of the lower gears and more torque would only exacerbate the problem and make the car less fun to drive. The heavier the car the more the torque can make it easy to drive but the converse it true as well.

The stock S2000 will still outpull a MIata in any gear at low rpms, then once the VTEC engages it rockets away so the torque is more than adequate for a car much heavier than the Locost.

The Ultralite is very roomy for a Locost, but there is the issue of poor sealing between the engine and the passenger compartment that can make it very uncomfortable to drive on a hot day. The exhaust being on the passenger side is great.

I would bet that the Stalker is better supported as Brian seems to be building hot rods more than Ultralites nowadays and the fact that there are simply more of the Stalkers around. But since you aren't buying a "factory" car I'm not sure that's a huge dissadvantage.

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mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

Sorry but that statement is just plain wrong. It's OK to be biased, but lets not mislead the guy. I don't care how well behaved a driver you are, a bump is a bump is a bump and when you hit it in a 1200 lb car with 150lbs of unsprung weight, it's gonna acellerate the mass of that axle upward for the suspension and the chassis to absorb and it's gonna disturb the ride quality a lot more than the same bump would with a lighter independent rear. It's not really debatable that for well behaved or otherwise street driving IRS will give a better ride quality.

You may have driven solid axle cars really hard over god knows what and loved it, but there's a HUGE difference between a solid rear axle in the 4000lb car it came out of and the 1200lb car you're putting it into. It all comes down to the ratio between sprung and unsprung weight Kurt just mentioned.

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He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

A great illustration of the difference in ride quality between live-axle and IRS is to drive an empty pickup truck down a bumpy road, then load it with rocks and do it again. Night and day difference due entirely to changing the sprung to unsprung weigh ratio.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

I'd probably pass on both of them and go for a Birkin. The Stalker rear has very little travel and so it's fine you you are going to use it on the track, but the rear is wholly unsophisticated. I've heard there were some 'issues' with the Ultralite, which was unfortunate, because I was really hot on one until I started getting some private e-mails about parts not delivered and fit and finish issues from people who had bought one. Either would make a good track car though once you got everything you wanted. The Birkin is a bit more sophisticated IMHO, but it would probably run a bit more unless you got one that was a bit older [but still serviceable].

I've always thought the Ultralite was the best looking of any of the Lotus 7 inspired vehicles, and it appears to be a pretty sweat package. And I wouldn't worry about the lack of torque of the S2000 engine, with only 1250lbs to pull around, it will have plenty of torque at any rpm to get you moving in a hurry. But test fit before you buy, as it is certainly a little smaller (and much lighter) than the Stalker.

But from a used car perspective, I would take a good used Stalker over a bad used Ultralight. But Dennis IS friendlier to the do it yourself crowd, mainly because he is used to different builders wanting/building different things. While the Ultralites are generally only available in turn key form, and thus only have a few variations. But the upside, for them is that they are all built by experienced/professional builders.

So things like ride quality, cabin room, luggage space, etc. can only be personally evaluated. Unfortunately there are no WCM Ultralite S2ks in the NE that I know of and the only Stalker (not super stalker) in the area that I've been able to see in person and run, is not currently insured and on the road. Ho hum... BUT...there is a seven's ride this wknd in NJ:

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?t=5092

No Super Stalkers or WCM Ultralite S2ks, but I'll try to sample as many other sevens as possible this Saturday.

As for track performance, my newbie self tends to believe the torque and HP advantage of the SS, even with the weight penalty would outgun the WCM given the same driver, but what do I know.

On the street though, the IRS in the WCM seems like it would have a real advantage. That combined with actual trunk space in the WCM probably gives the touring advantage to the WCM. Though I'm not sure of the tank size in the WCMs (10gal in the SSs) and with the 4.44 gearing vs. the 3.42 gearing in the SS, not sure who would get better tank range. As for lack of luggage space in the SS, I think I can get creative and overcome that. I've done it before. :p

worst comes to worst, you could always pick up a small bike trailer for luggage space and spare parts/tires

Or one of those trailer hitch cargo boxes.

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JSullivan