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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 22, 2018, 3:51 pm 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
What do half doors look like, Dave?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 22, 2018, 9:33 pm 
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Location: meadview arizona
the arm rests, well i made my doors to encompass those, and in my case i moved the rear mudguards away from the body to allow air coming down the sides to pass between the body and mudguards.

the sides of my hood and lower panel have big grills in them so the fast flowing air down the sides sucks out the hot air from the engine bay and maybe the volume of air coming out tends to push the side air out somewhat around the mudguards and you know this is happening when the fan clutch engages as you feel the hot air.

i have two round footwell vents to draw air from the sides into the footwells to increase the pressure in the cockpit area to try and keep the wind out also windshield winglets to do the same.

but honestly i don't think any of it does much because there is no roof so as in my case it is probably just an exercise in futility.

i think the best piece of aero anyone can do is to seal up the underside of the car in the engine bay, tunnel, the rear axle void and under the trunk area but i had to modify mine due to the extreme heat captured in the tunnel causing the diff to overheat

once i had screwed up the air flow under the car to extract the hot air from the tunnel all was lost so i added twin exhaust pipes made from 2" x 1" box section under the car and the sound level when driving is perfect no buzzing.

his winglets on the front probably do nothing., i considered enclosing my front "a" arms in a sort of fin/wing thing but thought better of it as i have inboard coilovers so the wind blows straight by, should have used aero tubing for my "a" arms

as far as the windshield goes yes moving it back as close to the driver as you can get it is the only thing i wish i had also done, i think the critical dimension is 36" if i am not mistaken.

if he had fitted clamshell fenders then all would be lost as far as aero goes but even with cycle fenders you need to get the leading edge as close to the tire as is possible but then you can't keep them that close all the way round as stones will get past them at the bottom and fly into the cockpit landing down the drivers back so when you get out of the car there is a handfull of stones in the seat.

still nice to see another take on a seven and it still looks like a seven

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 23, 2018, 12:40 pm 
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Joined: March 30, 2011, 7:18 am
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Location: central Arkansas
davew wrote:
The nice part about half doors, is if you leave early in the morning and later it gets hot out on the road, you can remove them


I've wondered why you can't put a couple of hinges on the bottom, and just fold them down against the side of the car for entry/exit, then pull them back up and latch them.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 23, 2018, 12:59 pm 
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Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
TRX wrote:
davew wrote:
The nice part about half doors, is if you leave early in the morning and later it gets hot out on the road, you can remove them


I've wondered why you can't put a couple of hinges on the bottom, and just fold them down against the side of the car for entry/exit, then pull them back up and latch them.
You can:
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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 23, 2018, 1:05 pm 
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That's nice on the Eleven. Due to the rear fender location of the Seven, the typical door shape will interfere with the rear fender as it hinges down.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 23, 2018, 1:58 pm 
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Hinged on a horizontal tube, the typical Locost rear fender location would definitely be a problem. Hinged on a non-horizontal tube, it might not. I'm not aware of anybody having experimented with it, to know for sure though.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 8:38 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
Loonie-S
My half door; A simple construction, 3/16 wire frame with Cortex covering. The front attachment is a hook, the lower section is attached with an elastic ban and the rear is a stud that I slip an "R" clip over. Can not post [exp file] the only full shot I have of the door? Here a photo of the rear attachment. As mentioned, the half doors cut down a lot of the wind in the cabin area. Dave W


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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 1:14 pm 
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Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
I've often wondered if something like that grill screen at the base of the windshield could be used to bleed off the high pressure air, and duct it to the interior of the car. I suspect that would result in extremely reduced buffeting in the cab, as there would be far less pressure differential between the front & rear of the windshield, and a lot less air streaming in from the sides of the cabin to fill the partial vacuum (which would be reduced or eliminated).

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 2:43 pm 
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"It's a four-wheel motorcycle"! :D
"It has the aerodynamics of a brick!" :shock:

And now we're discussing COMFORT tricks? :roll:
Electric steering, cup holders, stereo, over-padded seating, wind buffeting, etc.?
Maybe we need a sticky on turning your Locost into a Miata? :ack: :wink:

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Last edited by RichardSIA on February 24, 2018, 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 3:19 pm 
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Location: West Chicago,IL
RichardSIA wrote:
"It's a four-wheel motorcycle"! :D
"It has the aerodynamics of a brick!" :shock:

And now we're discussing COMFORT tricks? :roll:
Electric steering, cup holders, stereo, over-padded seating, wind buffeting, etc.?
Maybe we need a sticky on turning yout Locost into a Miata? :ack: :wink:


I hear that some Locosts have parts in common with Miatas. Maybe those Locosts can become a single car donor for building a Miata. #circleoflife :mrgreen:

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“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766


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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 6:42 pm 
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Location: meadview arizona
Richard,

its not that we are trying to make a locost into a miata its just that we don't want to wear a crash helmet when we are driving.

the wind buffeting is a real problem as you can't hear anything or keep the wasps out of your eyes or stones off your face.

the electric power steering is soooo goood that you need it and i mean you Richard, don't knock it till you have it and when you do get it you will wonder how you did without it.

this is the 21st. century and we don't need a crank handle to start cars anymore and the days of tickling the carb or hot tube ignition are long gone

next you will be saying that cart springs are the way to go wth friction dampers and motorcycles an't real if you don't kick start them.

i have tried to keep my car looking vintage to the casual admirer but have as much driving convenience as possible without detracting from the driving experience.

i could have fitted a turbo but instead chose a roots type blower because it looks period, i would have liked to drive it directly off the front of the crank Bentley style but it wasn't practical.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 7:49 pm 
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Damn, you ARE good at tickling my nostalgia!

I have a pair of vintage "Half-shell" crash helmets for driving the Dio-Alfa.
I'm actually hoping I can register it with no windshield at all. :D

No, I do not need electric steering, never will, I want to feel the road.

"We don't need a crank handle to start cars anymore and the days of tickling the carb or hot tube ignition are long gone.
Next you will be saying that cart springs are the way to go wth friction dampers and motorcycles an't real if you don't kick start them."

Come to think of it the TR4A chassis I will be building next does still have lever action dampers and everyone knows real motorcycles do not have electric start!
You have no idea how badly I miss those "Primitive" features vs modern soul-less appliances!
Or maybe I should say how badly I miss the cars and bikes I used to have that required such attention.
They were such junk that I can no longer afford the stratospheric price of ownership they demand today. :cry:
Perhaps this is why I am recreating just such simplicity with my current build?

Yah, I'm the guy who still goes with the original definition of a Sports Car.

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Last edited by RichardSIA on February 24, 2018, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 9:34 pm 
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Harrumph. *Real* men use the hand pump to pressurize the fuel tank and the mixture and spark controls are on slip rings on the steering wheel! And if you need light you get out, drop pieces of carbide into the lamps, and light them with a match.

Heck, some of you guys have probably never sewed a tire onto a rim, either...


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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 10:14 pm 
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Location: No. Nevada
TRX wrote:
Harrumph. *Real* men use the hand pump to pressurize the fuel tank and the mixture and spark controls are on slip rings on the steering wheel! And if you need light you get out, drop pieces of carbide into the lamps, and light them with a match.

Heck, some of you guys have probably never sewed a tire onto a rim, either...


I'm still ticked off at a guy forty years later, for not giving me the chance to drive his 30's Lagonda as promised!
I spent a couple of days fixing the wiring in his Ferrari to earn that opportunity.
And yah, the Lagonda had the gas pedal in the middle, right hand drive, manual spark control, a door only on the passenger side, etc.
A true sports car, NOTHING added that did not serve to make it faster. :D
Such a piece of antiquated junk, it's probably only worth about three million bucks now.

America's first production sports car was NOT a 'Vette!

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Last edited by RichardSIA on February 24, 2018, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting aero
PostPosted: February 24, 2018, 10:38 pm 
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Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
RichardSIA wrote:
"It's a four-wheel motorcycle"! :D
"It has the aerodynamics of a brick!" :shock:

And now we're discussing COMFORT tricks? :roll:
Electric steering, cup holders, stereo, over-padded seating, wind buffeting, etc.?
Maybe we need a sticky on turning your Locost into a Miata? :ack: :wink:

Well, I actually HAVE a Miata, and it's a superb car. My thinking on the buffeting, though, is that IF it's severe (which, in some Locosts, it can be) it can cause permanent hearing damage, among other things, so if there's an easy way to alleviate it, it's worth looking at. Personally, I'm going to try "wind wings" first, although from first-person accounts, they don't do much. We'll see - at least the wind wings are easy to remove if they don't contribute.

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http://zetec7.webs.com/


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