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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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What is your opinion on radical innovation on the exterior design?
Senseless, you are messing with a classic winning recipe 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Treading on thin ice, we are die-hards but the masses will let you know 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Cannot say, seems like it has potential 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
Maybe, but it should not effect locosts dramatically 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Yes, but you have to run it past the community for approval 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Good, as long as it is an alternative 24%  24%  [ 12 ]
Great, I have thought of this myself 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
Absolutely, I've looked for radical upgrade options for exterior 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
Super, this will spark renewed interest with the tv generation and win us new memberships 18%  18%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 49
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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 8, 2012, 10:53 pm 
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RNX7 wrote:
We are happy to share with the LocostUSA community our designs...
I think that's very generous of you, and I suggest you use .sql files for sharing your body designs since your fellow members of LocostUSA have such a variety of 3d CAD software (I use Rhino for bodies, myself) and pretty much all of them can read .sql files. For chassis structures, .dwg files are easier to translate than .dfx...though on this board, SolidWorks is probably more popular than Autodesk.
RNX7 wrote:
please feel free to comment.
I note that Driven5 and carguy123 felt free to comment, and got reported for going off topic--the first red flags I've ever seen on LocostUSA. Judge not lest you be; you guys posted an OT promo to your thread on a thread asking "Anybody ever make a "traditional" car body to go over the locost chassis?" and nobody flagged that.
RNX7 wrote:
this is our second prototype...
Then you have lots to share with us. You can tell us about any difficulties that came up during construction, or during the registration process--we don't even know what engine you put in it.
RNX7 wrote:
is too early for common eyes to recognizance lines from Mobyl...
I'll confess to my common eyes, but we have thousands of members and surely some of us are sophisticated enough to see your distinctive design language if you'd jut point it out.
RNX7 wrote:
if you like to know more about it i could recommend you some Basic Design Books.
You could? Then do so. If our ignorance is limiting our abilities to appreciate your artwork, and you have a solution, don't just dangle the carrot--follow through with recommendations.
RNX7 wrote:
About the chassis in the floor panel <snip> gives more strength without add more material, I'm guessing you are not engineer right
Dominic had an interesting question whether he's an engineer or not: Is that floor panel actually being illustrated as perforated in some sort of triangulated pattern? Surely you can answer it in layman's terms. I'm guessing you are an engineer or you wouldn't be talking down to us about degrees you guess we lack, so may I ask what kind of engineer? Automotive? Mechanical? Train? If you two (and the free young designer who is true to his brief) would like to give us your credentials, we might warm to your attitude--to quote Yogi Berra, It ain't bragging if you done it.

PS: A link to a YouTube video of your first prototype in action would also give your credibility a boost.
PPS: Answers would also be appreciated. Please explain the pattern shown on your floorboard graphic. I'm not an engineer, but I'll bet I can follow along if you type slow.

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 8, 2012, 11:02 pm 
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JackMcCornack wrote:
I note that Driven5 and carguy123 felt free to comment, and got reported for going off topic.

Way to go, Driven and Carguy! Now I guess I'll be reported too. What does that mean, anyway? I guess I'll find out.


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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 8, 2012, 11:18 pm 
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nick47 wrote:
What does that mean, anyway?


Double secret probation. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 9, 2012, 9:26 am 
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Carguy and Driven- "OH NO!! Not the whips, please don't beat us with the whips!?!!!! [whimpering and sobbing]

Group Admin- "You'll be getting Double-Secret Probation!" [Cue the evil music.]

Carguy and Driven- "On second thought, the whips sound like a good plan, let's do the whips..."

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 9, 2012, 11:24 am 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
Carguy and Driven- "OH NO!! Not the whips, please don't beat us with the whips!?!!!! [whimpering and sobbing]

Group Admin- "You'll be getting Double-Secret Probation!" [Cue the evil music.]

Carguy and Driven- "On second thought, the whips sound like a good plan, let's do the whips..."


Velvet whips and velvet handcuffs please.

I don't remember being chastized for going off topic. Maybe I was so off topic I forgot or it could be I've slept since then. I've found that when I sleep on my side a lot drains out into my pillow.

I've got to remember to squeeze the pillow pretty good when I wake up or I tend to lose things.

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 9, 2012, 12:57 pm 
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The voice of reason
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We have attitude issues here in this thread. It isn't from our regular members. Humor isn't a real cost as long as we can make progress in our threads. Starting threads and asking for contributions from our members to help someone commercialize their product while saying they would "consider" contributing back material on chassis design - while insulting the abilities of our members?

This points to a level of ineptness and lack of understanding of our community at a level that would call even basic business skills into question.

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 9, 2012, 1:29 pm 
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RNX7 wrote:
Hi, Dominic BMW Design language has been develop for years, this is our second prototype is too early for common eyes to recognizance lines from Mobyl, if you like to know more about it i could recommend you some Basic Design Books.
I'm always happy to hear recommendations for more reference material but I've got a pretty extensive design/reference library already. Again, I believe you're in no position to call what you've got so far a "Design Language". I can see some common elements (the side vent formed by two contrasting style lines, the truncated triangle grille shape etc) but, until you've completed (not just drawn!) quite a few cars, I don't think it's a language yet.

RNX7 wrote:
About the chassis in the floor panel is not just a but holder like you say, it is a structural element, gives more strength without add more material, I'm guessing you are not engineer right.
Thanks for presuming I have no engineering knowledge. I asked the question precisely because I have enough engineering knowledge to see what you think you're trying to do and guess that you probably don't really understand it. I suspect that you're busy copying lots of other things seen in books and on the Internet a.k.a. "Design by Google". So, please answer the question, which Jack (who definitely has more engineering cred than me) also asked: "What is going on with that floor panel?" I know what a skinned space frame is; I understand how gusseting of a frame works; I understand triangulation, force paths, and tube failure modes. So please tell us what that perforated floor is actually supposed to achieve.

It may be worth me pointing out that I have designed and built my own space frame chassis for a mid-engined Locost-style car (what we in Australia would generically call a "Clubman"). That chassis recently passed the government required and engineer administered physical strength tests (beaming and torsional strength) easily, with strength figures more than twice the minimum required, so I believe I have at least half an idea what I'm doing :)

RNX7 wrote:
Every single piece should looks good and work , attention to the details is very important.
Photoshop it's a tool and help us to search in volume and graphics, it's better than spent 1 month in a clay model.
While I agree that spending time on a clay model can be costly, your current sketches are unrealistic because they only work from a particular angle or they use exaggerated elements to look good. Until you build a 3D model (even if it's in CAD or some sort of NURBS modelling tool) that you can rotate and view from all angles, you don't really know that your idea really "works".

If the traditional Lotus 7/Locost/Caterham/Clubman has a Design Language, it's one of absolute minimalism. The chassis is enough material to hold the drivetrain and suspension fixed together and the body work is (mostly) aluminium sheet stretched over that frame. There are no clever vents, scoops, flares, wings, trick LED headlights, clever shrouded taillights, or anything else. Just 4 wheels, an engine & drivetrain, and two seats. It's raw in a way that no other sports car is - closer to a motorbike. Once you spend a small fortune on exotically shaped fibreglass panels you shift the car to a different class of owner, who doesn't want the raw and will therefore find the result unsatisfying. If you believe you can make money designing and building cars like your renderings, I suggest you get the first 10 deposits in full and in cash :)

Sorry if this sounds like a long rant (it probably is since it's late Friday night/early Saturday morning here and I've had a busy week) but I think your enthusiasm exceeds your wisdom at this point. Looking forward to some answers about your engineering decisions.

Best regards,

Dominic


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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 9, 2012, 7:09 pm 
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By his avatar, Carlos looks to be still a bit wet behind the ears....

http://grabcad.com/library/rinox
http://grabcad.com/carlos--90

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 9, 2012, 10:16 pm 
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Just out of curiosity have either of you guys ever built a car?

Part of the appeal of the Locost is its simplicity, elegance, and light weight. There are are no more than 6 fiberglass pieces and the entire body can easily be finished by a guy in his garage. I just don't see it in any of your concepts and I do not think you can appreciate it until you have been through a build. Your concepts are too complicated, too wanna-be-F117, and most importantly too vaporware (the only way to impress builders is by building).

Kurt had the right idea with the Midlana body - he took a winning concept of simple and ran with it. Jack wanted a full body for the Locost - instead of doing something very modern and complex and only attractive to a very small audience, he stuck true to the Locost design and developed a simple yet classic body that still used a bunch of easy to form sheet metal.

Considering not very many people even finish their Locost, I would try make the build as simple as possible. You are setting yourself up for failure trying to start body first.

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 10, 2012, 1:55 am 
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a.moore wrote:
Just out of curiosity have either of you guys ever built a car?

Part of the appeal of the Locost is its simplicity, elegance, and light weight.

Considering not very many people even finish their Locost, I would try make the build as simple as possible. You are setting yourself up for failure trying to start body first.


I have yet to build one from scratch hence the locost route. I have had a long road (since 2008) restoring, actually repairing my 944 83 auto. Carlos have also been involved with exterior and interior restorations and had run a small business offering revised and unique after-market parts. We both have a passion for car body design and needed a platform to test our ideas on. Following a process starting with impractical concepts, selecting 2 or 3 options, and bringing to life specifically on the dimensions of the locost chassis - we have a long way to go!

We risked 'exposing' our ideas to get a sense if there would be interest in something different. We got more than we bargained for. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 10, 2012, 3:18 am 
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The voice of reason
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Well feel welcome here, but don't talk down to people. You never know right away when you talk to people you never meet half way around the world what their talents are right away. Sometimes the most gifted people are not the best at expressing themselves.

If you expect to gain a return from your posts you need to put in the effort to contribute. That means to stay engaged for a longer term, and publish your models here so people can publicly play with them. You can get what you want, but public or open projects are different then proprietary ones. I think they increase your chances of success by increasing your marketing and exposure with the benefit of feedback about what people want...

Dont' give up, business isn't easy after all...

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Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 10, 2012, 3:38 am 
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mobylDESIGN wrote:
We risked 'exposing' our ideas to get a sense if there would be interest in something different. We got more than we bargained for. :mrgreen:
I think you guys will fit in fine, now that you have a better idea what LocostUSA is about. Feel free to write "I don't know" when it's an appropriate response to a technical question; nobody here expects you to know everything. In general, plain English is better than the arcane patois of your particular engineering forté because this group has such a wide scale of skills and training. And even if you are better schooled and more experienced than the average member here (a hypothesis yet unproved, but even if) you'll find some of the members will know more than you about anything you come up with. So don't waste keystrokes attempting to baffle the Hive Mind of LocostUSA 'cause you're going to get caught.

Also, "We got more than we bargained for" is inaccurate. You got exactly what you bargained for, as stated in your original post:
mobylDESIGN wrote:
We would like to test interest and responses so be as kind or harsh as ou need to be.
Regarding the harshness, some of it was hazing for your hubris, but some was in response to design features the respondents didn't care for, and that sort of harshness should be music to your ears because that's where you'll find the most valuable feedback. When it comes to improving your design, people who think it's fine just the way it is, they can't help you.
mobylDESIGN wrote:
Our aim is to create high quality complex futuristic car exteriors, tomorrows ideas today.
[harsh advice alert] While using the locost chassis for a prototype is an excellent idea (particularly if it's your first from-the-ground-up car build), the locost community may not be your best market for complex futuristic exteriors, for reasons already mentioned (unnecessary weight, unnecessary anything), plus the locost attracts folks who are particularly attracted to non-futuristic cars, plus (and here's the big one) complexity costs money and locosts are by nature low cost.

So though I think we're a great group for bouncing ideas off of, I think when the time comes to sell your kits, you're going to want to appeal to the Caterham crowd more than the locosters.

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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: November 10, 2012, 1:09 pm 
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Wow, two great posts in a row. I can only add that if you want to be successful here, you can learn a lot from Jack. He's considered not so much a vendor as a valuable resource. That's what you want to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: December 14, 2012, 8:27 am 
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We have spent some time on creating a final render on what a radical exterior can look like. It is meant to offer, according to our poll results, an alternative and for people who are looking for something totally different.

The next step for us to create the body parts in a practical way :?

Happy New Year to all :cheers:

May your new year be filled with health and happiness :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Locost Concept Car
PostPosted: December 14, 2012, 11:34 am 
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And a windshield goes where?

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