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Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

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basfromasd

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 4:19 am

Joined: March 4, 2009, 11:50 am
Posts: 4
Location: Hilversum, Netherlands

rapt wrote:

I think I'll take one of those two-piece windshields; can you wrap it for me?

I am working on fitting a piece of window glass inside a thin flat door (maybe 3/4" inside thickness). Since the door is mounted straight up and down, a flat glass would go pretty much straight up; not slope inward to join the windshield & roof.

Fitting a sliding window inside a thin door is notoriously difficult.
The easiest solution would be to use the 2cv mechanism: a two-piece window, of which the bottom half is hinged in the window frame. You can flip it up, where it is held by a clamp. Simple, proven and you can still rest your elbow on the door.

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 6:43 am

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

rapt wrote:

I think I'll take one of those two-piece windshields; can you wrap it for me?

Creating a nice fit & seal from end-of-windshield to front-of-side-window looks to be the most difficult task.

Creating a good fit with security, aero, and a clean look that doesn't leak anywhere is the toughest part IMHO.

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 6:48 am

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

weconway wrote:

I love those little cars. I wish I had a special ray-gun that would shrink the entire US automotive fleet by 50%.

So would you say that the museum is worth taking a weekday off for? I've been meaning to go there with my little one. She's a half-pint like all those cars, and just learned to go "vroom! vroom!". I think she'd get a kick out of it.

I think they are only open on certain weekdays but it is well worth the trip, especially for little ones. I think it was a $5 donation. It must be a pretty good tax write-off for Mr. Bubble Gum.

They had a National Meet last weekend but I have the impression that crowd tends to be very well off. The $65 registration fee to be there (plus the rain) effectively filtered out the riff raff (me). They tried to keep it down to 100 people and raised the registration price as the date approached.
Food was included.

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 6:54 am

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

basfromasd wrote:

rapt wrote:

The 2cv hinge appears to be right in the line of sight.

If one didn't tilt the upper side inward above the belt line, a channel just like a house window to slide up and down would work. Lever or gear silding with several detent positions would work. With a single lever/cable pull, it could be operated while in motion, leaving a hand on the steering wheel.

I like the sliding setup on the Messerschmidt; just aluminum channel and a finger grip. The Morgan uses a similar arrangment.

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rapt

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 9:52 am

Joined: August 13, 2008, 10:36 am
Posts: 352
Location: Lynchburg, VA

Thanks for the feedback - you didn't mention the curved-glass idea, which I like except for the difficulty of finding an existing part that fits.

For the thin door problem, I thought I'd leave off any inside panel, so the glass is exposed when in the lowered position. On tracks to keep it in place, and a finger tab at the bottom to move it with, plus maybe three stops to set it partway up. I might use one post on the forward end to guide and hold the glass, and seal to the windshield post. No frames top or rear. Tricky [PooPoo] I know.

Maybe this discussion should be moved away from your microcar thread?

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 12:27 pm

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

I think this would be a good spot for anything to do with glass and door fitment.

Curved glass would need to come from a glass maker. Glass shops usually buy sheets and cut as necessary.

Another option is to useslip in glass that can be removed and inserted into the hollow of the door. The window is either fully open or fully closed but the door can be vertical and the glass angled inward.

Besides looking good, tapering the body above the belt line only slightly reduces frontal area. I'm not sure it is worth it to lose roll-up windows.

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rapt

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 1:08 pm

Joined: August 13, 2008, 10:36 am
Posts: 352
Location: Lynchburg, VA

Out of the hundreds or even thousands of different curved side windows in production, I'd expect to find something I could use.

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 1:22 pm

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

If the door is close to the same size as the door your building, sure.

If your thinking of trimming the glass you find, either inside the door or outside, I don't think tempered glass can be scored and broken but I've never tried.

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rapt

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: May 27, 2009, 6:11 pm

Joined: August 13, 2008, 10:36 am
Posts: 352
Location: Lynchburg, VA

It can't. I've tried.

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ckouba

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: June 1, 2009, 2:10 am

Joined: March 1, 2008, 8:42 am
Posts: 103

Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:

No experience with it yet but I have read that masking well and sandblasting whats not wanted is effective. It will be quite a while before I get to try but it supposedly works.

Chris

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: June 1, 2009, 12:06 pm

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

That makes sense. Before discussing it here, I hadn't really though about how I was going to cut tempered for side windows. I remember when glass etching was popular for different designs (like flames) and vin numbers as a theft deterent.

I took a lot of pics at the Lotus Owners Group meet and at the Barber museum. I need to clean them up and resize.

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rapt

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: June 1, 2009, 4:05 pm

Joined: August 13, 2008, 10:36 am
Posts: 352
Location: Lynchburg, VA

The size I'm looking for is reasonably close to some of the smaller production stuff (junkyard); I should be able to find something to design around. As long as it doesn't screw up my lines too much. It just means spending a few hours scouring the yard. The junkyardsmen, experts, are not much help either - the best he can do is let me in to hunt, and a lot of them won't do even that. I gave up pretty quick on a search for a tabulation of available dimensions.

It would be more in character to use flat glass, and easier, but then I'm stuck with boxy vertical sides (door & window in one flat plane).

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: June 2, 2009, 7:50 am

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

I don’t go to yards that won’t let me browse. I don’t go to parts stores that won’t let me browse (it’s not my fault they put radiator hoses and brake lines are behind the counter).

I just had an idea. There is an adhesive film product for homes that makes it really tough for a person to break a window. If it is clear enough, that could work very well for side windows made from plate glass with the film o the inside. The windshield is basically the same thing but the film is between the layers of glass.

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Warren Nethercote

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: June 2, 2009, 9:08 am

Joined: January 2, 2009, 1:45 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

If you really want glass side windows, why not just get flat laminated glass cut, at the same time you get your windshied cut. The Brits use (or at least did when I lived there in the 70s) tempered glass even for windshields (not that you'd agree it's sensible after the first flying stone leaves you with a lap full of shards) so why shouldn't you use laminated glass for side windows? (perverse logic, I know)

There may be a safety reason (perhaps emergency egress) for tempered side and rear glass in production cars, but I suspect its cost at high volumes.

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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F

Post subject: Re: Post-WWII examples: glass and door fitment on convertibles

Posted: June 2, 2009, 12:10 pm

Automotive Encyclopedia

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042

Thats a good idea. It will be thicker and heavier, but it would be worth it to me. Should cut down on road noise too.

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