LocostUSA.com

Three months.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

He may drive a slow car, but he certainly works fast!

So not just three people with strong interest...But three people with strong interest who are both willing and able to essentially put their money where their proverbial mouth is right now.

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

Well the patterns aren't far from ready, it's not like I'm starting with a clean sheet of paper. Three months is a safe quote.Not necessarily right now, I'll start whenever there's the interest to support the venture. But if you want your body parts by Independence Day, right now would be good.

As far as the money-where-their-mouth-is part goes, most Locost builders are familiar with Kinetic's credit terms. I'm not going to ask for money for something that doesn't exist yet. I need three people to give me orders, not to give me money. I'd even accept "I'll want delivery next Spring" orders. But it is a big project, and I don't have the yarbles to make the molds on spec and hope for the best.

I've had a few products that I thought would take the world by storm. Like, who wouldn't want a Wright Flyer replica instead of an ordinary ultralight? All but five people, that's who. I'd calculated I'd break even at 50 aircraft and make money on the 51st. If I'd sold 30 of them the first year, that would have been enough to keep them available, but 5? No way.

Three Locost bodies is the risk/reward equivalent of 30 "Light Flyers" (cute name, eh?).

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Fair enough. Do you have any idea of just what the limitations would be regarding max chassis length and width, max engine height, max overall width from outside edge-to-edge across the tires on either end, or max tire diameter and width? I assume the removable hard top would need to be used in conjunction with the glass windshield/frame, and possibly a specifically dimensioned roll structure of some sort?

...And thanks for historical note on the Light Flyer, as forum member nocones and I were musing about surprisingly similar ideas not too long ago. It's a shame the idea never took off.

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

No significant limitations, Driven5. I've been locosting long enough to know it better fit a lot of cars, I doubt that any one particular chassis has 1/3 of the new build market--there's book, +442, +442E, Haynes Roadster, and lots of variations on those themes, and there's short little pushrod engines and tall two liter DOHC fours and the occasional five liter V8, so...

--The cross section of the scuttle and doors is a simple curve, as are the pontoons. Front and rear fender positions fore and aft are determined by the wheelbase; if you want to add a few inches in length you add a few inches of door and pontoons. I intend to make the door molds 5" oversize so wheelbase can be up to 5" longer than book if desired, with trim lines marked for book, Haynes, and McSorley models. The pontoons are sheet metal at the cockpit, so they can trim to fit as well.

--The nose/fender assembly will be three pieces, so various chassis widths and engine heights can be accommodated by changing one part (the center section). First three guys can have custom nose centers at no extra charge,

--The stern is made up of fenders joined by sheet metal in a simple curve, so track variations can be covered by varying the width of the sheet metal.

Ooh I'm so clever.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

i wonder who Barry Massivenose will be voting for in the up comming election, and indeed it would be nice to do a brief synopsis on his political views in general.

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this story shall the good man teach his son,
and chrispin chrispian shall ne'er go by,
from this day to the end of the world.
but we in it shall be remembered.

I didn't come here to be made sport of.

Please limit the questions to fields in which I have some experience, e.g. aerodynamics, fabrication, and how to pick up girls*.


*Lift with the legs, not with the back.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Since your name is on the presentation list for the MEN* FAIR in Puyallup, it seems pretty likely you'll be there?...And that Lalo might be accompanying you as well? My wife and I were thinking about stopping by. If your weekend isn't too full of high falutin VIP** events, maybe you could even fit in some time for a chat.





*Mother Earth News.
**Veggie-oil Instead of Petroleum??

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

Yep, and I'm giving a talk on Sunday the 3rd, between 11:30-12:30. Feel free to bring a bag lunch.

I'll be driving the Lalo prototype there (MAX as it's known to Mother Earth News readers) and will probably have it set up dual-fuel with olive oil injection for that distinctive "I'm hungry--let's do Italian" scent.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Jack --

As you know, I'm about to start welding my first tubes, so it will be a while before I need any body parts (okay, before the locost needs parts...). However, as I'm constantly designing this thing in my head, I have a few questions about a Lola-ish body:


1. Exhaust. I'm doing a V6 build, so I'll have exhaust on both sides (unless I do something really funky like use a FWD exhaust system). Where does an exhaust go in that Lola-style body? How is the body shielded from the heat? Does that exhaust go "outside" the body or "under" the body? I have been mentally sketching an exhaust system that runs "under" the side pods, a bit protected from the bare legs of young bystanders.


2. With the extra side width, I could possibly hide a side impact bar (which would be about high enough to fight off a side impact from a roller skate, but still it's something). Or I could make that side impact bar also a supporting structure so people can step/sit on it while they get in and out. Or I could use that space for a cup holder or something.


3. I think I agree with you (was it you?) -- I don't want "support" bars running perpendicular to my body from the outside frame. They might tend to become spears in a side impact. I'll be looking for ways to point them in other directions while holding up those side pods, even if I end up with a birdcage in there, or have some thick aluminum sheet stock in there.


Again, thank you for your time -- we at LocostUSA are lucky to have you here.

Tim

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

Good questions, Tim.

1. On the genuine Lola Mk1, the exhaust ran outside the pontoon; the pontoon was recessed to fit it. The pontoons were more C-shaped than mine, which are almost as wide at the bottom as they are in the middle, just a slight curve for stiffness and aesthetics. On mine, the exhaust is inside the left pontoon, and it's essentially a conventional Locost exhaust with a port near the rear of the pontoon where the exhaust pipe sticks out a smidgeon. The pontoons are sheet metal (your choice; aluminum or steel; mine's prepainted 26 gauge roofing steel) and the left side of the chassis is paneled a la Locost (in fact I just left the paneling in place from the earlier se7en body) and I've never noticed any heat buildup. But then again, I'm running 32 hp maximum so perhaps with a bigger engine, I'd want to let some air flow through the pontoon.

On the passenger's side, there's no panel on the chassis; the cockpit is open to the interior of the pontoon, which gives a couple of cubic feet for storage (tent, sleeping bag, clothes).

2. That's what I did, I put an impact structure in the pontoons, and it's sheeted with 1/4" plywood on top so it can be sat on when getting in and out...though the only person who it has mattered to is my paraplegic squeeze in Lexington. It does make entry easier for wheelchair users and doesn't seem to make entry any more difficult for anyone else. Nobody steps on it to get in the car, any more than they step on the top frame rail to get into a Locost.

3. The pontoon is skinned with three 18 gauge bulkheads (one on each end and one in the center). They'll crumple not spear. But yes, that was me who didn't like the idea of tube braces aimed at my torso. The next Locost I build, I'm going to move the rear axle back an inch so I can put a 1-1/2" round tube coming straight out horizontal from the top rearmost part of the cockpit (just forward of where the shocks mount on a book frame) then bending forward 90 degrees and bending again to meet up with the chassis again. That way it'll still be enclosed by the body. But the wheels have to go back an inch from where they are or they'll hit the bar in maximum jounce. I have some inch longer trailing arms headed my way, and hopefully my dive shaft splines are long enough I won't have to redo the driveshaft.

And thanks for the complement. I think I'm lucky to be here.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

I know I've read somewhere that when Max got new wheels you went to a taller tire, but since I don't recall seeing it specifically noted, I'm curious what size tires you're actually running now?

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

I'm here at the Bay Area Maker Faire with the car. If you're wandering around the Faire, I'm set up in the northwest quadrant. about 50 yards to the eight o'clock of the giant fire breathing, rock music blaring, steel prehistoric monster.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Damn, I'm stuck here near a huge race track with a Pagoda in the middle. Otherwise I'd join you....

BTW, I note that Lola has filed for bankruptcy, and that Lotus might not be far behind....

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

Jack, are you still planning to be in Puyallup on June 3? If so, I'd like to stop down and say hi. Do you know where you will be setting up "camp" or would the best bet be to catch you after your talk? Will you be there Saturday as well?

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."
Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52