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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:37 am 
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Location: Meridian, Idaho
I've been toying with the idea of making a custom aluminum radiator and sketched up the attached drawing to obtain quotations. The dimensions are based on a mix of Radtec's standard Caterham radiator and mounting dimensions for a SPAL 11" curved blade pull fan (Part No. 30100411, Model No. VA09-AP8/C-54S). The *.rar file contains Acrobat files of the drawing as well as a specification for the fan. Hopefully this information will be of value to someone.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:34 am 
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Thanks, Steve. This is helpful. Twenty questions (well, five): I'm assuming that this is for an S3 size chassis? Are you thinking about going custom for any reason other than the fan mount? What lead you to choose that fan? Would you share the quote with us when you get it? Do you happen to know if this is used with a Duratec I4?


-Piggy Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:55 am 
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does the fan come with a shroud, because if it doesn't you will need one.

the duratec in my ranger had a factory pusher fan and the radiator was far to big to fit in a locost

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:19 am 
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Pe7e wrote:
Thanks, Steve. This is helpful. Twenty questions (well, five): I'm assuming that this is for an S3 size chassis? Are you thinking about going custom for any reason other than the fan mount? What lead you to choose that fan? Would you share the quote with us when you get it? Do you happen to know if this is used with a Duratec I4?


-Piggy Pete

P. Pete,

The dimensions are mostly based on information provided by Radtec for this radiator which fits both S3 and SV size chassis. http://radtec.co.uk/products/227/Caterham-7.htm.

Image

The Miata engine I am using is known for its mediocre cooling system design as it's a FWD layout adapted to RWD. In addition to rerouting the coolant flow to better mimic the FWD layout, I am thinking of a more efficient radiator to handle the 100 degree plus temperatures here in Boise during the summer. The additional headroom is also to accomodate some extra ponies from forced induction :twisted:.

The Radtec comes with a 9" SPAL pull fan as standard with the option for this 11" fan. The 294mm vertical core dimension corresponds to the minimum height of the 11" fan, so this is as big of a fan that will fit without making the overall dimensions larger.

No problem at all sharing the quotes. Hey, maybe we can get a quantity discount!

I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like the Radtec radiator is roughly the same as the Caterham R400 Duratec triple pass race radiator. I think the depth may be closer to 90mm?

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:05 am 
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Steve, Is there any reason you are not considering the ubiquitous Ebay dual row aluminum Civic radiator? I was worried about the cooling too as I have a RX-7 engine. That eingine is known for it's cooling issues too. This rad has no problems keeping my engine cool driving highway speeds in 95deg heat, hour after hour or sitting at idle for 1/2 hour straight. I hear the fan come on and then cut out shortly after. Others here have reported similar results with their rotary engine builds. I believe there is even a V8 build with one of the radiators. I have to believe that the Miata engine could be no worse.

from what I read in our archives, the Civic rad is about the same size as the Hyundai rad that the Stalker guys use in their 3.8L SC builds. Just asking.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:25 am 
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Location: Meridian, Idaho
Chuck,

The Civic radiator is on my list of possibilities as well. I am also looking at Scirocco radiators which are about 23" x 13".

Another consideration is leaving enough clearance to fit an intercooler someday. I recall the Civic radiator is taller than it is wide and needs to be installed at an angle to fit inside a typical nose cone?

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Last edited by skou on Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:52 am 
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Yeah the Civic rad is a bit taller than it is wide. But within an inch or two, the core is square. This is a good thing when it comes to mounting an electric fan. The closer to square, the more effective a fan can be. (a circle fits a square better than a rectangle, or even 2 circles in that rectangle. Yes the radiator needs to be tilted a bit. This is necessary to fit inside the Kinetics nose cone. I'm not sre what nose you are planning; and at the same time, provides clearance of the lower hose coupling to the frame. If you get the Civic rad, get the 2 row (or 3 row maybe? I'm running the 2 row) 2" thick Civic radiator with the larger hose fitting, there are 2 sizes. And get the largest fan you can find. The std rad fan combo you see on eBay has a slightly smaller fan. It can be larger and still fit with a small amount of shaving the plastic shroud.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:19 am 
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For comparision, typical dimensions for a '92-'00 Civic radiator are 14.6" wide x 18.5" tall x 1.65" deep.

Some quick trigonometry says I would need to lay it down at about 48 degrees from vertical to get down to 12.31" (314mm).

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:24 am 
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It only needs to tilt as far as it needs for clearance to the nose, not necessarily to fit the same OAH. Any space left between the rad and the nose tops, sides and bottom will have to be shrouded for best cooling anyway. My Civic rad fits in a std Kinetics nose while tilted a bit (~15 deg+/_ ?) but nowhere near that 48 deg. I see you are using a different nose. That will certainly determine what is needed. Supposedly, the Stalker's Hyundai rad is lower and wider than the Civic and would not be a "custom build". They are reportedly cooling 3.8L superchargerd engines on the track with that rad. It may be an alternative. You'd need to do some research there to find the correct model.

Core area of your Caterham drawing = 163 in sq. (Not sure of the core thickness. It may be 2"+)
Core area of the Civic radiator= 194 in sq. (tpically, the dual row 2" Civic radiators have 13.78 x 14.09 x 1.65" thick cores.)

The Caterham uses a 11" fan. You can get a 14" fan to fit nicely on the Civic rad (smaller on the stalker). Not knowing specific fan models, I just compared two same-make same-model fan data for the 2 sizes. The 11" was rated at 1075CFM the 14" was 1769 CFM, or 64% more. There are better fans out there and the ratings were just in free air, not a real test condition mounted to a radiator. But it shows the relative advantages between the 2 sizes.

From a fan point of view the Civic rad w/14 inch fan would be much better in traffic or on the grid. From a core area point of view, hands down again to the Civic. As for core thickness, the Caterham has the upper hand. Real world???? Most of us don't swap out radiators just for a test so I doubt you'll have any real data to know which will be better in your application.

I hope this helps to make some informed guesses. :cheers:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Location: Meridian, Idaho
Here is a link to some previous discussion on the Civic verus Hyundai radiators.

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6612

Seems I was mistaken on the dimensions of the Hyundai radiator. 16-3/8" tall x 12-3/4" wide x 2" deep.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:10 pm 
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I just got a Mishimoto Civic rad, 3 row, to try to cool my SR20DET. Dimensions are as above but core is 2" deep. I was starting to mount it on the weekend and it only angles back 10-20deg (I didn't measure the angle) on my McSorely 442 chassis with COLD nose.

Dan

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:34 am 
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Location: Columbia SC
I'm running a 2 row Ebay special Civic Rad. With my 140-150 HP Volvo 2.3 and it works great even at 100 degrees. I do run an oil cooler next to the radiator as well. Car probably won't really need the oil cooler, but i was thinking of a turbo down the line.

The radiator fits a 14" SPAL fan perfectly. That cools the radiator in no time. My coolant thermostat opens a bit too early and the engine never gets above 175 unless it's sitting for a good while, then the fan kicks on about 195. I do have a higher temperature thermostat, it just needs to be installed. I'd like the running temp about 185-190. 170 is too low.

Pretty sure the installed thermostat is a 78deg. Have an 83 on the shelf that should do the trick.

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