LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:28 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:01 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Sidney, NE
I found these images today through another post talking about a removable hard top for a Locost. They used an LS engine with 4" side pipes, cutting ceramic foam into rings, then inserted into the tubes. I kind of like the concept. The ceramic should help to keep the pipes cool, but would this setup still be loud as hell, or would it be decently quiet?

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

_________________
Cost to date: $203.62
Projected cost:$12,000.00
Expected completion: Spring 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:01 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 4805
Location: SoCal
That's kind of cool, but until you run a sound test - with a dB meter - it's just a nice assembly.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:22 pm 
Online
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 3045
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
I'm no engineer and I don't play one on TV, but it would seem to me that the only function they serve is more of a heat insulator rather than a sound attenuator.

But that would be cool as all get out if it worked!!

Wonder if they'd rattle? I see the crimp that holds them in, but tight enough not to rattle? Especially after heat cycles?

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 111
Location: NASHVILLE
The crimps were only temporary to hold them in place before welding. Two stainless perf cones were built and also welded in from each end of the tube to match what i found in a new set of hushpowers i installed on my sons car. I still haven't started the car so don't know if this has been a complete waste of time but have had a good time designing and fabricating this idea.
You can put your hand on a hot Hushpower without getting hurt and the sound is great but i don't like the shape.

_________________
PHOTOS OF THE PROJECT
http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery ... emId=23737


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:01 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Sidney, NE
I'm anxious to know how well they work. I really like the look. Where did you get the ceramic? Most every search I try comes back with information about Chinese manufacturers.

_________________
Cost to date: $203.62
Projected cost:$12,000.00
Expected completion: Spring 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 111
Location: NASHVILLE
This is the link to the St Louis company i got it from. Can't find the invoice.. sorry.
http://www.christyco.com/pdf/crc/Christ ... _Sheet.pdf

_________________
PHOTOS OF THE PROJECT
http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery ... emId=23737


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:57 pm
Posts: 1
I don't know if the site will allow me to attach links but check this out:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=sound+dispersion&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1252&bih=625&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=sound+diffuser&pbx=1&oq=sound+diffuser&aq=f&aqi=g4g-m2&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=5758l9090l0l9917l14l11l0l0l0l0l244l1870l1.8.2l11l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=88e7747489c1adf6&biw=1252&bih=625

Alternate the inside diameter of the ceramic disks and you may be onto something.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:47 am
Posts: 199
Seems to me that to attenuate the sound you have to let the exhaust pulses escape thru the perforations. If you surround it with ceramic like that, its like plugging all those holes - you end up with the same result as a straight pipe.

On the other hand, if you used a few of those rings at intervals, you end up with something like a chambered muffler. Might sound pretty good.

Stainless or fiberglass wool is the usual packing material in those types of muffs. Or asbestos! Perforated motorcycle muffs without the packing are louder than the ones with it.

_________________
Jack Collins


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:40 pm
Posts: 1813
Location: san francisco bay area
MustangSix wrote:
Seems to me that to attenuate the sound you have to let the exhaust pulses escape thru the perforations. If you surround it with ceramic like that, its like plugging all those holes - you end up with the same result as a straight pipe.

On the other hand, if you used a few of those rings at intervals, you end up with something like a chambered muffler. Might sound pretty good.

Stainless or fiberglass wool is the usual packing material in those types of muffs. Or asbestos! Perforated motorcycle muffs without the packing are louder than the ones with it.


That's my initial response as well.
I wonder though :? closed cell foam works just fine as sound deadening material so despite the stiffer cell walls could ceramic perform in the same way even if its attenuation is less?
I've never experimented with the various spray on sound deadening materials but one or two of them have a ceramic component iirc.

_________________
"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:57 am 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 5494
Location: Massachusetts
So how vibration resistant does that foam seem? I'm afraid it will just turn into sand on you. Keep us posted....

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 111
Location: NASHVILLE
This ceramic material is very porous, light weight and seems to have very good sound deadening properties, but I think the end result will be that this stuff will be turned into a powder by the vibration against its self and the steel components of the muffler. The question is how long will it take. I thought about glueing it into the tube with some of the high temp materials used in the manufacture of kiln doors. This will be tried as a solution if the material fails to stay in place.
If you can believe what you read in muffler adds, you can eliminate the harshness/high frequency sound waves in an exhaust tone by forcing the exhaust pulses to escape thru perforations of a certain diameter. Velocity of the exhaust gas thru the holes also plays a role in the resulting tone. The surface area of the perforated material also affects the back pressure ....so cones are usually used to decrease the back pressure.
The perforated cones that were placed tip to tip and welded inside the muffler should kill off a good share of the high freaks with the walls absorbing some also. I have set the sections of the muffler up so I can get back into it for changes or repairs.
Has anyone ever cut open a Hushpower to see what they are using as an insulator/sound deadening material? What ever it is... it is great stuff.

_________________
PHOTOS OF THE PROJECT
http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery ... emId=23737


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:35 am
Posts: 53
Location: Langdon,AB
I'd be interested in an update on this. Neat idea, but just want to know the longevity of it. I am pretty sure in the as-shown application, the sound reduction would be very minimal indeed.

_________________
Lurking and leering...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:01 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Sidney, NE
Reviving an old thread. Woo hoo!

"IIG'S Thermo-12® Gold Calcium Silicate pipe insulation is a high temperature, abuse-resistant pipe and block insulation with exceptional structural strength for use on systems operating up to 1200°F (650°C). Thermo-12® Gold Calcium Silicate pipe and block insulation is the preferred product for application on high temperature piping and equipment."

http://www.industrialinsulation.com/calcium_silicate_insulation.htm
http://www.rath-usa.com/pds-calcium-silicate-boards.html

I'm not finding pricing on things, but you can apparently buy 4x8 sheets of it, up to 3" thick.


_________________
Cost to date: $203.62
Projected cost:$12,000.00
Expected completion: Spring 2017


Last edited by charlesshoults on Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:36 pm 
Online
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:25 am
Posts: 3045
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
But will it crack and break from vibrations and bouncing around on the road?

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:54 pm 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:05 pm
Posts: 4613
High temp board materials tend to be crumbly and are not designed to be abraided by exhaust gases and unburnt fuel. A silicon blanket packing would be more effective.

Don't get this stuff in your lungs cutting it. Your body can't remove it and scars the lungs trying to.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY