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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 3:02 pm 
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Joined: June 15, 2010, 8:29 am
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Location: Duxbury, MA USA
I starve for fuel if tank is half full in a long right...think highway ramp. It might do it in a left too, but I dont have any turns here that would allow me to test it. The tank has foam in it already, but that is not doing the job. I got the tank from Kinetic. Jack, maybe you can shed some light on what is under all that grey foam. I have to do something about this soon.
What have others done with the Jaz tanks?
Thanks, Paul

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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 3:51 pm 
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Location: Boise, Idaho
I installed two pickups (one in each corner) using low pressure pumps which feed back to a central surge tank (HDPE plastic). The EFI supply pump pulls from the surge tank (blue line). The EFI return (SS braided line) goes back to the center of the tank, but not into the surge tank. This will run without starvation down to the last 1/4" in the tank.


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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 4:14 pm 
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Joined: April 1, 2010, 10:26 am
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Here is my solution to fuel surge problem, foam is not enough.

Graham

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16445&p=184242#p184242


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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 4:14 pm 
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Another type of thing you see is a sump for the pump that is internal to the tank, not hanging down. This sump has one or two legs of a maze built into it. The maze allows fuel to flow in rapidly during a straight line, but it cannot flow out during either direction of corner. That would work better than something with trap doors I think.

If I remember earlier discussion on this site, these maze thingies are part of some OEM fuel pumps so you may be able to simply swap in a part from some Toyota or Ford or Chevy. I swear there was a picture on our site, but I can't find now...

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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 4:21 pm 
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The voice of reason
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This is what I was thinking of, no maze involved it seems. I like the idea of an OEM solution, I imagine they researched this for awhile...
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11744

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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 7:47 pm 
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The Holly Hydromats look really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jsSPRUTSA

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PostPosted: August 29, 2015, 9:59 pm 
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wrightcomputing wrote:
The Holly Hydromats look really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jsSPRUTSA


Well, except for the price. 8)

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PostPosted: August 30, 2015, 4:51 am 
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I made a tank for a friends off roader that suffered with fuel starvation on really steep hills and running sideways round banks. The surge pots never had enough capacity for his needs and the efi pumps once air locked would take an age to clear. I copied an idea from a model aircraft tank with a weighted rubber pick up pipe , 3 x 20mm nuts slid over the pipe is enough if the rubber is old school and pliable, the filter with a clip stops them coming off. . The inertia of going up ,down, upsidedown or sideways took the weighted pick up pipe to the fuel. Way better than baffles, he could get away with fuel levels as low as 1 gallon in a ten gallon tank and no more issues .

Bob

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PostPosted: August 30, 2015, 9:38 am 
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carguy123 wrote:
wrightcomputing wrote:
The Holly Hydromats look really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jsSPRUTSA


Well, except for the price. 8)

Not exactly locost. I guess but it depends on how bad you want/need it. Apparently it works pretty much till the fuel is gone, if you get one that covers the bottom of the tank well.

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PostPosted: August 30, 2015, 1:07 pm 
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Location: White Rock, BC, Canada
I'm the one who hung the OE bucket in my fuel cell and highly recommend it. It will pull right down to empty, cheap, uses common parts, and keeps your pump fully submerged (so it lives longer). You could use a factory pump as well and then you could go to a parts store and buy one if you travel a lot. If I were to do it again, I would probably just cut a big hole in the top of the cell and make a bolt on assembly to drop the whole unit in the cell (and support it). Just like your normal flanges, but with a fuel pump assembly hanging off the bottom. I wanted a baffle so went this route but I don't think it was required for fuel suction (I just didn't want several gallons of gas crashing around that far in a light car).

Cheers.

PS: I can post clearer instructions too if it helps.

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PostPosted: February 10, 2016, 1:35 pm 
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Location: Duxbury, MA USA
So, since it is winter, there is lots of salt on the road and I needed gas for the snow blower...I drained the gas tank on the Hodgepodge in order to install the Holly Hydromat...and snow-blow the driveway. Once I pulled out the foam, it was really obvious why I had pickup issues with my Jaz fuel tank. Not only was the pickup all the way on one side, BUT it was 2 inches off the bottom of the tank!!! Sheesh!! Hey Jack, If you read this...gripe to them for me.
Anyway, will order the needed adapters to install the pickup and this problem should end up solved. Testing likely end of March when the snow melts and we get a good rain to clear the salt.
Paul

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PostPosted: February 10, 2016, 7:13 pm 
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I've been conversing with the sales manager at JAZ and he says your raised fuel inlet line is the first he's heard of in his 15 years on the job. He had an interesting theory you might want to check:

>>
As far as the hose being two inches off of the bottom, it may be possible that your customer is using the custom installed Return fitting with hose as the pickup.
This would be why the hose does not go to the bottom of the fuel cell, as Return w/ hose would not go completely to the bottom.
Your fuel cells are built with a Pickup with hose and a Return with hose, so it may be a simple mistake as far as which was actually used for the pickup.
>>

Does your* tank have a fuel return? If so, you may just have the tank rotated 180 degrees and be picking up fuel from the return hose. With carbureted cars (and no return line) this would never happen, but with EFI, I don't think one can tell the difference between the lines by looking at the top of the tank, and I'm surprised this has never come up before.

Also, the hose goes on the right on those tanks because circle track people turn left. It might be better to have a slightly longer hose and route it to the middle, since us Locost folks turn both ways. I'll talk with JAZ about that possibility.

*I should make a place for LocostUSA screen names on my customer database--if I knew who y'all were I could check against invoices and see exactly what you got from us.

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PostPosted: February 10, 2016, 8:32 pm 
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Me again. I went through invoices and figured out who JPS Europa is (since I only have one customer in Duxbury, I'm pretty confident) and yep, you have a tank with an AN-8 return line. So I asked Brad at JAZ if there was any way to tell as the gozinta tube and which was the cumzouta tube, and got this reply:

>>
If he has both AN-8 pickup and AN-8 return, the fittings would look identical from the outside of the fuel cell.
The only way to know which fitting is which would be as follows:
-The pickup would be by itself on one end of the fuel cell
-The return would be next to the vent fitting on the opposite end of the fuel cell
>>

And of course, if it was an error on JAZ's part (e.g. wrong tube on the wrong nipple inside the tank?) they'll want to take care of it.

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PostPosted: February 10, 2016, 10:48 pm 
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Try this: Disconnect fuel fitting. Take a little mechanics wire and bend a small hook in the end. Feed it down each tube and pull up. Whichever tube is longest, is your feed. This will also give you an idea how long each tube is. Make sure you use thin enough wire to just pull on and un-bend the hook part.

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PostPosted: February 11, 2016, 1:46 am 
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> starve

Is the car injected or carbureted?

Some carbs can uncover one or more jets in a long turn.

Doing track days with a Carter AFB, the engine would flatten out in long turns and I'd have to work the accelerator pump to keep speed up. The EFI guys found it vastly amusing.


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