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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 26, 2012, 8:04 am 
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I'm not sure you can get the diff in and out of the car. I think you could lift it up and out


Yo Marcus-
Looks good, Bro! On my car, which has the downbars off the main hoop come straight back -not angled inward like yours- there is plenty of room to lift the diff up and out. Yours should be OK, but hard to say...

I also remember, looking at this drawing, that I've failed yet again to measure that 8.8 for you. I apologize, and I promise to do it Sunday when we're back up there!

Regards-
JDK


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 26, 2012, 11:10 pm 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
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I'm not sure you can get the diff in and out of the car. I think you could lift it up and out


Yo Marcus-
Looks good, Bro! On my car, which has the downbars off the main hoop come straight back -not angled inward like yours- there is plenty of room to lift the diff up and out. Yours should be OK, but hard to say...

I also remember, looking at this drawing, that I've failed yet again to measure that 8.8 for you. I apologize, and I promise to do it Sunday when we're back up there!

Regards-
JDK


I guess I was just thinking for awhile that it would drop down and had to get used to the new idea. THe Ford IRS is just one way to do this car, so maybe it's no big deal.

BTW the rear roll hoop supports that go straight back are still in the drawing ( or they are supposed to be ), they are just an option. I have drawing layers for a "track cage" and a "street cage". Hmm, the new parallel arms are probably in the way for the street cage though on the lower supports for the hoop.

Thanks for remembering on the diff measurements. I crawled under a Subaru today to get some measurements. It was a bit of a surprise because cars aren't the way they used to be. I was crawling and groveling and slithering and got my head just about under the diff. The first thing is they make the parts out of some blurry material. By the time you get your head under the diff something about the bumper or back of the car wedges you to the ground and you get stuck! That never used to happen.

Who knows? At least I got some numbers and can start modeling an R160. It's just silly small...

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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 2:16 am 
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Here's a first shot at the R160 diff model. Some of the dimensions are right but the shape of the pumpkin part isn't correct yet. It's hard to actually see it under the car. The mounting holes are close to right but I'll have to do some more measuring and maybe get the car up on stands or something so I don't get stuck again.

The R160 is a 160 millimeter ring gear which is about 6.3 inches. That doesn't sound like much difference from 7.5", but it's a volume I suppose so that would be about %70 different. Ford probably builds it from V8nium which makes it a bit bigger too.

I'm eager to see how much rear has to change to mount this. I hear a rumor that there are measurements and pictures of the Corvette C4 rear end coming too. By then we should have a reasonable set of cases covered.


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 5:26 am 
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Hi there Marcus have a R160 model in SU as well as a Subaru Impreza rear end...not 100% accurate but close enough for our purposes.....If you do a 3D warehouse search for R160 diff you should find my collection of car parts...will dump more of my drawings over time...Crewe.


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 11:06 am 
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Thanks Crewe, that's great. I see you have an upright modeled too. What Subaru is that from, not sure I understand the title there.

I have made a collection to hold your models in the parent collection for our homebuilt cars. It looks like your frame is ready too. It doesn't have to be done, you just keep updating it. "Real men don't do backups, they upload to the internet"!

That's great news and I'm glad you did this. I wasn't going to be able to take more measurements because of the weather for awhile. Now I can just drop in those uprights...

Please let me know if you want any changes to the name or description etc. for the collection I made for your models. You can also just make your own collection and then I will point to that....

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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 12:24 pm 
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The gc8 is the body style we got here before the turbo imprezas came out...


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 12:58 pm 
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Thanks Krepus. Can you remind me of the kind of the general kind of parts you want to use in your build? Are you going for a V8 and I4 etc.?

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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 1:17 pm 
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Mine or crewe?

At the moment, its looking like the lotus 907, depending on what it costs to finish rebuilding. If I have to replace liners and pistons, I'm probably going to junk the motor... Otherwise it'll be another 4 cylinder. Either t5 trans or Toyota w58... Was looking for a mk2 supra for brakes and rear diff, but that r160 rear looks lighter and easier to mount, I'd grab the brakes and uprights(if possible) from whatever car I get the diff from...

Lots and lots of ifs there... If you meant Crewe, sorry for the run on... Lol


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 3:12 pm 
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No worries here Marcus....Im just glad some one can make use of my drawings....they are not mm perfect but they will get us in the ball park for getting a design together....

All my drawings are intened to be use to build a real Locost....I have built space frame cars before plus Rally/Racecars with mates...so have a good understanding of how things go together..

Thanks Crewe..


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 27, 2012, 3:22 pm 
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At the moment, its looking like the lotus 907,


Thanks and sorry I forgot. I knew that I knew but just couldn't put my finger on it right away.

The R160 is looking great. Thanks to Crewe and the surprise that the Subaru upright has it's pickups in nearly the same spot as a Ford Thunderbird ( who'd have guessed that?! ), we'll have a drawing for that sometime tonite.

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Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 28, 2012, 7:42 pm 
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Awesome...


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 30, 2012, 2:40 pm 
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Making some progress here. I've put in Crewe's Subaru diff and rear uprights. Made a little change to his uprights by hiding some of the drawing lines, but they are otherwise unchanged. I will have to try and flesh out my upright models one of these days. Spent hours on the little piece of tubing that the diff mounts to. Sometimes my sketchUp pieces develop tiny flaws that I don't find right away, but cause numerous problems after I've invested some time in them. I'll have to redo it again.

The diff and rear suspension stuff might be strong enough with 1" round tube and that wouldn't require more fishmouthing. so I'll have to run the numbers on that. Still not done on this yet, but just thought I'd show where this is going at the moment. I'm not completely happy yet.

I did make a special version of one of my links by adding some transparent aluminum to it. Now I can put that places and check for clearance with suspension travel... :)


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 30, 2012, 7:20 pm 
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Marcus, Car9G just gets better and better. A couple of questions, though:

On the Ford IRS SU model you posted, the tubes that I scratch my head over are the diagonal ones that thread between the lower parallel links. If the diff height were changed to achieve one’s desired ground clearance given a specific tire O.D., might there be potential interference between the diagonal tubes and the lower parallel links when there is vertical wheel movement?

Could you also explain why there is no need for cross or diagonal bracing or separate toe-in adjustment links between the lower (parallel) control arms. Is that all taken care of by the trailing arm / control arm design?

Cutting all the round tube fishmouths accurately could be a challenge. I was thinking of how much PVC pipe I would go through creating trial-fit diagonals, etc. But then found the post referencing http://digitalpipefitter.com/ and became intrigued with both the software’s function and their business model: Layout software is free, only the print version is fee. Seems one could create a template “print” service business that would work something like this: Locoster creates his layouts on the free version and emails the files to the Servicer. Servicer (who has purchased the $$ version of digitalpipefitter) “prints” them to a print file and emails them back (for a modest fee.) Locoster prints out the actual templates and trims their own tubing. Trimmed lengths and end-to-end rotational alignment would be the only variables Locoster would have to look out for. More work than having them laser cut, but could be an accurate, inexpensive DIY approach. Just thinkin’… always a dangerous thing.

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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 31, 2012, 2:54 am 
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seattletom wrote:
Marcus, Car9G just gets better and better. A couple of questions, though:

On the Ford IRS SU model you posted, the tubes that I scratch my head over are the diagonal ones that thread between the lower parallel links. If the diff height were changed to achieve one’s desired ground clearance given a specific tire O.D., might there be potential interference between the diagonal tubes and the lower parallel links when there is vertical wheel movement?


I think there is a good amount of room. To help with that I made a version of the parallel link that shows it's motion. Hmm, I think that SketchUp could animate it, but will save that for a while.

The problem I have had making the car stiff is that main roll hoop bulkhead. The car is very stiff along it's sides up until that point, much more so then the normal Seven or Locost. That bulkhead warps under load though, partly because the rest of the car does not. Putting an x brace in the rear facing hoop didn't help at all, to my surprise.

While the rear braces went straight back the only thing that helped was x braces between the upper and lower backwards braces. The lower ones get in the way of the diff and especially the transaxle. After days of effort it occurred to me to just meet all those rear braces together at the back. It was a success - but it took many hours to get there.

When those lower brace tubes go in, it greatly increases the stress on tubes in the front of the car, even the little diagonal across the very front bulkhead. That's a good thing.

I'll do a little more work with the Grape FEA software and come up with a number for how much those tubes help. I can also grab a shot of the car with the frame warped, maybe. Grape will display an animation of the warping but I am still very clumsy at getting the screen shots - so it might not work.

I also need an opinion from folks here or perhaps tech folk at either SCCA or NASA on wether the car's rear braces are legal. They are more then the required 30 degrees back from the roll bar and within 6" of the top. They look different though and that might be an issue.

seattletom wrote:
Could you also explain why there is no need for cross or diagonal bracing or separate toe-in adjustment links between the lower (parallel) control arms. Is that all taken care of by the trailing arm / control arm design?


Yes. That's one of the nice things about the trailing arms. The torque forces from the brakes are taken by the trailing radius rods. With slicks and a rear weight bias ( especially in a midy ) that can be a substantial load on the wishbone. The engine torque is taken by the diff mounts. The toe adjustment is simply controlled by the parallel links, pick one and adjust it. There is also no bump steer compared to what I was doing earlier with the reverse wishbone.

seattletom wrote:
Cutting all the round tube fishmouths accurately could be a challenge. I was thinking of how much PVC pipe I would go through creating trial-fit diagonals, etc. But then found the post referencing http://digitalpipefitter.com/ and became intrigued with both the software’s function and their business model: Layout software is free, only the print version is fee. Seems one could create a template “print” service business that would work something like this: Locoster creates his layouts on the free version and emails the files to the Servicer. Servicer (who has purchased the $$ version of digitalpipefitter) “prints” them to a print file and emails them back (for a modest fee.) Locoster prints out the actual templates and trims their own tubing. Trimmed lengths and end-to-end rotational alignment would be the only variables Locoster would have to look out for. More work than having them laser cut, but could be an accurate, inexpensive DIY approach. Just thinkin’… always a dangerous thing.


I looked at the digitalpipefitter website and read their license. I think they basically prohibit that type of activity. For the obvious reasons. It does appear that you could use the program to make templates or dxf files for a shop with tube cutting machinery and produce parts though. I think it cost something like $350-$400 though. On the other hand, I think they just prohibit compensation so I could just give the templates away.

It also seems like it just deals with the tube ends. So you can't really just give the outputs to a laser cutting place. You would need to take the output of this program and then ad stuff in the dxf file to describe how long the tubes are. Maybe I should read their manual...

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: My messy new shop
PostPosted: January 31, 2012, 4:29 am 
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Hi there guys have had this link for doing tube miter...it for bike frames but could be helpfull

Marcus there is all so some good SU unfold programs that could be used to get tricky miters done....you could print off the unfolded tube and tape to your steel and grind away......I used such lite tube on my first Formula Vee build that I could do the cutting with good tin snips.....wouldnt do that again though as car was very lite and arfter a couple of hard knocks the Chassis was a bit second hand....Chassis number 2 was a lot stronger!

Al most forgot the link http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/tubemiter.exe

thanks Crewe.


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