LocostUSA.com

Someone was building a Lotus 11 like car with a R160 rear end. I forget the user name - haven't seen an update in a long time. If you can find the build log it may have some info.

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-Andrew
Build Log
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That would be "B85", whos building the 11 type car.

When I shortened the rear facing hoop, that's just structure. I don't mean to prevent the normal rear end look. I meant to mention that. This would probably allow a little more variety now because you can just use some light tubing or sheet metal to work up any shape you want.

The picture is a little premature, it has parts of a previous effort and parts of the new effort. I am going to to try and bring them together the next day or two. It's missing the crucial tube from the place where the braces meet at the rear hoop to the rear diff mount. That will triangulate ( somehow ) with the tubes coming in from the sides which are supporting the rear suspension parallel links.

I was reflecting today and can see the traditional Seven / Locost rear bulkhead with it's backwards slant might make this a bit easier. You could maybe get support from above on the cross piece behind the driver's shoulders. I am trying to keep really major lumps out of the passenger area and also not have metal tubes pointed at the passenger's backs. So that will get some attention the next day or two also.

Thanks for the pointer on "B85", I'll go try and find his build log. If it adds a bit to what I got from Oldejack's pointer, I should be able to draw something up. These drawings are going to have 20-30 layers and you'll be able to just click on parts and configurations then see them appear in the chassis.

The diff in that picture is a Ford 7.5". It's very similar to the 8.8", for instance I believe it has the same length and front mounting. The 8.8" has a pinion offset of 2" instead of 0.5".

I hope I don't run out of places for a fuel tank. I think a drum on a little trailer is probably just wrong some how...

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

B85's log explains what I wanted to know about the R160 rear mounts. That was sort of hidden ( by the mount probably, LOL ) in the pictures on the Z car forums.

It does look like you could just use the whole Subaru rear end with the long trailing radius arms that Car9 uses. You don't need a strut adapter type thing, just use a radius rod (in single shear ) where the strut bolts on. Here's a picture from the 1st page of B85's build log...

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

OK, to mount the Ford 7.5", 8.8" I think something like this will work. I am thinking people will use bushing and not solid mount the diff because it doesn't hurt for it to move around just a bit. This unit does not have control arms or anything else bolted to it and it should reduce shock loads etc. I haven't finalized on the tube sizes yet, but think the little tube that descends from the middle of the rear hoop would be the same material as the cage. It should be able to take many thousands of pounds of force and it directly moves this force into the main cage thru the four roll hoop supports.

There will need to be a little more thought about the brackets ( we need a little smiley for Gonzo's At-om bomb cloud when mentioning brackets... ) for the parallel links. This seems like it will work with the Thunderbird rear uprights. For the Miata part it would need to be adjusted. I'm OK with that right now because there is a solution with the Ford 7.5 / 8.8, driveshafts and Thunderbird upright that would all play well together.

I haven't done a good job on the front mount yet, but don't think it will be difficult. It's close to the rear bulkhead. I would like a little bit of tubing in front of the pumpkin to make sure it doesn't try to more forward in an accident.

I think I will draw up the Subaru complete rear next.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

An aftermarket pumpkin girdle might add strength to the mount as well as to the IRS center section. See pic below and http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/le ... irdle.html
Good thought. Since seat backs slant at 15-18 degrees or so, the space behind them is not very useful if the rear bulkhead is verticle. A slanted rear bulkhead would also add some mounting space and cockpit shielding for fuel tanks, batteries, etc. Framing could be either light weight tube or something structural. Wrap-type shoulder harnesses might have some conflict re use of the cross piece, though.
House the new visitor doing? Is the beer maid jealous yet?

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."
Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52

Any one have details on the diff pictured here? I know it's the same as the Catera and GTO, but physical dimensions, ratios available...? There is a shot of a serial number in there...

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-h ... ath-3.html

Hi Krepus, have you been able to download the SketchUp files and play with them a bit?

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

Hey horizon... I've downloaded the files and sketchup, but I'm still not able to view anything... I picked up a cheap pc that's light years ahead of the laptop I've been using. I'll try again when I get that set up this evening...

New pc is up and running... And I can view the "sketches". Pretty awesome to be able to pan and zoom... Is there a way to snap measurement lines? I'll have to take some serious time and mess around with this...

It takes some time to get used to. I used to get lost inside the motor, by mistake.

You should be able to find a measuring tape icon and that will help. If you measuer from a point it will draw a guide a certain length with a plus symbol at the end. If you measure from a line it will make a line parallel at the distance you spec.

If you find the menu item for "tool palettes", you can select "large tool set" then you get a few more options. You can put in dimensions that will change and update as you move items around. That's a symbol with a couple of arrows and a number on it.

I'm on a Mac so where you find some menu items may be different. Try finding a menu with a list of windows in it. It may have things like "Model Info, Materials, Components etc.". Click on the one labeled "Layers". Many parts of the drawing are hidden. Turning different layers on lets you see different version of the car. Or remove things that are in the way for what you want to see etc. I'm trying to put most things in different layers. There's a dozen or so now.

It's great you're playing with it and getting your feet wet. I hope this becomes a useful resource for people to look at different parts and try to see how they fit together. I'll be happy to explain how I drew things or how to change stuff etc. If you make some changes or draw some new parts you can upload them and everybody comes out ahead.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

My current work list is something like this, in about this order...

- Clean up and improve the rear more. Diff and suspension mounting.
- Subaru R160 diff, driveshafts and uprights.
- motor and transmission mounts, transmission tunnel
- more transaxle work
- A better nose cone.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

I do have a question about a tube that is in the firewall, approximately where a bell housing would reside... It's on car9 and car9g, running from the upper driver's side to lower passenger footwell. Is that to be in the end design or to be removed before the drive train is placed...? I may have missed comments on this earlier.

I found the layers options... pretty cool to be able to view individual components...

I took the night off work so I can play around with this a bit... lol It was ok by the missus so long as I also did some laundry, dishes, took out the trash, walked the cat, worked on the cars, worked on my real estate law sections, etc... lol!

back to laundry...


*Is the V8 car really over a foot longer from the tip of the nose to the first hoop/windshield and maintains the same 92" wheel base?

That tube would be for the version of the car with a transaxle. It isn't in the current Car9G model and I don't remember when I removed it, I guess when I started trying to draw up the front transmissions. It should be in a layer for the transaxle which has a much smaller driveshaft tunnel. It's a good tube to have because it helps keep the engine out of the passenger compartment.



Basically. the wheel base on the current 9G is 96". I mostly made the engine compartment larger by adding space to the front. The 9G is also 4" wider in the cockpit. So by making the nose farther ahead I was able to keep similar proportions and I hope it is coming out looking nice. I think it takes almost the same size nosecone for instance. When I make a new nose I'll check that.

The new length to the front doesn't really add much weight or change the weight distribution. It should make more room for the radiator though. The bulkhead wich holds the steering rack and takes the main cornering loads stayed in the same place. The wishbones have one perpendicular arm and I just flipped them forward around that. So doing this made very little actual change to the frame. Now we need a little bit in front that can take the braking loads. At the moment I continued the main upper chassis rails forward, but it is more likely we can make something out of smaller tubing that just welds to the main front bulkhead. That would be nice if you ever actually hit something because it would give you 18" of crush space there before you hit the really strong stuff.

Hmm, when I said I made the engine compartment larger by adding space to the front, I don't mean to say the engine goes more front, there were just some little tubes and suspension stuff in the way for the bigger motors. So that stuff moved up in front of the steering rack bulkhead.

You can download a newer version of Car9G or wait a couple of days for next upload.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

This is where things are after some more cleanup. The Miata rear uprights are gone now and we have an all Ford rear end. It probably doesn't make sense to mix up to many parts if you don't need to. We can draw up an all Miata rear end when the time comes if someone needs it.

I redrew the bracket on the back of the diff to allow the tubes connecting to the under piece to come closer together. I think when that happens this will be a robust mounting.

What do folks think about round tubes vs. rectangle for the tubes that the parallel links connect to and the little tube under the rear diff cover? I think it will be easier to build and weld by a large amount, so I'm going to draw it that way, but a little afraid it will be uglier.

The rectangle tube will be easier and stronger for brackets and provide adjustment room.

I'm also thinking I have to revise a bit because I'm not sure you can get the diff in and out of the car. I think you could lift it up and out, perhaps I can argue that's what the trunk lid is for?

I don't have accurate numbers for where those mounting holes on the rear diff cover are. I just guessed from pictures. So I won't panic yet over being able to get the diff out of the car. One it comes down enough to clear the bracket it will have more freedom of movement.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.