LocostUSA.com

Anyone here fitted this system or know anything about it ? http://fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-Products

Seems incredible value.

Bob

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Mancave http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/mypic ... ow/mancave

Wow that is cheap, I guess putting everything on a single unit reduces costs a lot. That would be perfect for my TR8 engine. Looks like I might have a winter project for 2016/17.

Graham

Agree that it seems a lot for the money though I'm constantly impressed by marketing spin. That is, while having the ECU inside the unit does clean up the wiring, it's subjected to heat, vibration and potential fuel leaks. "Saving a huge amount of time" by not having to plug in a cable doesn't undo the harm it undergoes its entire life.

I'm skeptical of the auto-tune feature because most aftermarket ECUs either don't even try (because they learned it can't tune for every engine condition) or the feature accomplishes only a portion of the total tune necessary and it still has to be run on a dyno to fine tune it - undoing much of the point of the feature in the first place.

See if you can find a forum, just make sure it's not located on the manufacturer's website, because they may filter out negative posts. Just sayin', keep it objective.

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I'm designing an ECU, the market has really been growing during the time it takes me to do it. It seems people are catching on that the computer hardware part is not that difficult. I see traditional units that replace the OEM injection that cost 2 to 3 thousand dollars. These units come with a well made full wiring harness and I think that's likely the most expensive part of the system. The CPU chip has about 25 millions transistors and is made on a very high tech fabrication line. The connectors I look at for the ECU box cost $25 or more, sometimes much more. That's just one side of the connector and it's a simple block of plastic with stamped metal pins. Then you look at the labor to connect wires to the pins and read forum posts about ECU problems being traced to poor wire joints and mis-fitting pins...

When they build the unit more self contained they remove a lot of cost and reliability issues. This style unit leaves you with many of the issues of carbs though with things like mixture distribution. There are good reasons that injectors are put in individual runners pointed at the intake valve, you can get more accurate fuel metering for each individual cylinder. This is true even if you use a carb style manifold with a 4 bbl throttle body, which is the setup going on my 302 test bed.

My boards came in a couple of weeks ago and the parts are arriving now, so the board should go out for assembly next week. This should be a "locost" unit but I am not cutting any corners on the parts or fabrication. the boards are fabricated in the USA to a very high standard and I am using automotive qualified parts which are specified for extended temperature ( -40C to 100C ) and have extra lot testing etc. to ensure compliance.

The CPU I am using offers special hardware support for knock sensing and ion sensing etc.

Here's a picture of the PCB, it's a very small unit...
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/download/file.php?id=48729&mode=view

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

I have only read one article on these and the guy was suitably impressed, Holley are just launching something very similar so I can only assume having the ECM within the unit is ok. Some diesel engines have an ECM buried in the pump and that seems to cope with vibration and heat.
Holley`s version https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_sy ... niper_efi/

Bob

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Mancave http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/mypic ... ow/mancave

I cannot recommend any bolt-on EFI.

That is like sticking it in only half way, you're going to want more....

Port injection is the most practical, Direct injection with VVT is mainstream now but the aftermarket has not caught up.

Difficult to retrofit a DI system anyway.

Most motors can use OEM fittings the ones that cant just need injector bungs welded into the intake manifold.

One of the harder items to work out is fuel supply, EFI is not tolerant of fuel temp variations and mostly air in the fuel is real bad.
So a recirculating system with some kind of sump or surge tank is needed.

I have been very disappointed with AM stuff from both Edelbrock and Holley.

Another shortcoming has been tuning software, many claim to auto tune (I'll believe that when I see it).
Tuner Studio comes very close for auto tune, but there is no substitute for a knowledgeable person on the keyboard.

I have had great success with MegaSquirt systems and will build one to order for you.

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Honey anyone?

+1 on the Megasquirt!! Great DIY project even for a novice technician. I have 4 of them under my belt and will have a 5th in the Locost!

You just can't beat them for simplicity, versatility and cost! Check out http://www.diyautotune.com/ depending on your donor they even have PnP versions now!

K "megasquirted" S

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Using a semi-modern engine, pretty much means it has EFI to start with. With that in mind, it makes no sense to me to revert to use TBI. However, using a 1970's donor, using a standalone ECU gives you semi-modern control which is a good compromise IMO. From what I see, those units use 4 barrel TB's and are targeted for V-8's. Hardly proper sizing for most 4-bangers we use. Pardon me for excluding those with V-8 Locosts.

The Megasuirt system is a great system IMO. Every aftermarket EFI has their own unique problems. Just look at any of the help boards. The MS is no worse in that respect. What the MS has going for it is it is reusable in virtually any future engine/project one might choose. There is no need to buy another whole unit if you repower your Locost. For a day or two's efforts, buying the MS in kit form over the PnP version is tough to beat economically. Further, one doesn't need to go with all the bells and whistle accessories. My unit is the MS-II with no other add-on boards. It controls my rotary engine and a few other accessories just fine. IMO, building the kit makes a perfect Winter project when it is too cold to work on your Locost in an unheated garage.

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Chuck.

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Bob, I've noticed the injection you ask about mentioned on the Speedtalk forum. I'm not sure there is much there about it, but a little hunting shows the designer of that system posts on that forum under the name "RednGold86Z".

Here's a post from a couple of months ago...
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44915&p=577938&hilit=fitech#p577938

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

A TBI system even with the best electronics and software isnt going to be much better than a carb.

Fuel distribution, fuel atomization, fuel puddling (wetted walls), Airflow (air heavy with fuel), etc.

Port injection gets the fuel where it needs to be and the manifold runners don't have "many folds" to make room for a carb or TB.

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Honey anyone?

Exactly. A wet manifold will never get you the MPG and response of port or DI....But, it works fine for the vast majority of car enthusiasts that are not driving competitively, which (I believe) is the main target of these 4150 based, self tuning, "EZ" systems. I have installed and driven MSD, Holley and FAST versions of these and they make a nice upgrade for the guy that just wants to enjoy his car with an old engine in it. The self tuning is actually very good at it's job in most cases as long as you have the system installed correctly, which is harder than the advertising implies.

There is a big difference between the perception of the "best" on the internet and what actually works for most people. It's like chasing the perfect roll center...diminishing returns after a while. I'm all for high standards though and have built and tuned many modern, forced induction, standalone powered cars also.

wouldn't it be nice if someone made a system like the throttle body systems but with 8 injector pipes similar to the GM designed "spider" but outside the manifold and some simple "push in" injector ends that just required a hole to be drilled in the top of each manifold runner.

this would give the simplisity of an all in one unit,(throttle body) but with the advantages of port injection and a simple 4 wire install.

add to that a self tuning crank triggered wasted spark and you just need some coils, all controlled by the throttle body contained electronics.

come to think of it, why can"t the "spider" type pipes and injectors be put inside the runners, then be attached to a baseplate fitted on the stock 4 barrel flange, then the throttle body including the electronics and ignition stuff could just be bolted to that, you could then diguise it as a 4 barrel carb for a retro look or mount it on its side for a tpi look with low hood clearence.

with the addition of a swerl pot style pump as fitted to mercruisers which receives fuel from a low pressure electric pump and houses a high pressure pump and regulator suitable for one pipe injection, you are ready to go, you just need a crank signal.

of course, you may think that a 3/16" pipe would take up too much room in a port runner, but it is only flowing air without the fuel, that is in the 3/16" pipe so no problems of drop out.

you could consider mounting all the pipework under the manifold as i have done with nitros systems and 16 pipes, so 8 should be a breeze.

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this story shall the good man teach his son,
and chrispin chrispian shall ne'er go by,
from this day to the end of the world.
but we in it shall be remembered.

I would agree its a sticky plaster but I feel its going to out perform 99.9% of 4 barrel carbs for one reason alone and that is set up. Most carbs are never set up properly because they are seldom afforded any dyno time and when they are its rarely by someone that has all the kit to dial them in. Carbs were once described as an organised fuel leak which is about the sum of it, these self tuning TBI setups are at the very least going to end up in the ballpark. Timed sequential programmable port injection and itb`s get my vote but we are not talking about $1000.

Bob

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Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16640&p=187700#p187700

Mancave http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/mypic ... ow/mancave

when Duntov was preparing the first corvette with fuel injection for a show, he couldn' get it to run right and a collegue said that if all cars had this new fangled fuel injection and Duntov had invented the carb, then he would be heralded as a genius!!!!

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this story shall the good man teach his son,
and chrispin chrispian shall ne'er go by,
from this day to the end of the world.
but we in it shall be remembered.

Even still, I am disappointed when the Saturday morning car shows instinctively go wit the Edelbrock / Holly carb combo, even when when they've got a dyno etc to tune things.

I see the vast flood of EFI parts in junkyards, and wonder if a basic Megasquirt on an old GM TBI (or even injectors put into welded-in bungs in the intake?) could do the trick better and cheaper?

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.