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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: March 5, 2018, 11:24 am 
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@zetec7
@rx7locost

I'll be happy to share what I learn about the 250EX. It had become a Christmas-time ritual for me to look over all the TIG packages available at seasonal discount, but I never pulled the trigger due to their expense and the fact I didn't actually need TIG to do my project. It was really my wife who pushed me to go ahead this year as her present to me.

TIG is more of an aspirational need rather than a practical one. My inability to weld aluminum with what I had was the biggest negative of my previous situation. If you haven't started on aluminum yet, Chuck, just wait until you do. I swear that tungsten and aluminum have a magnetic attraction between them. That molten aluminum just leaps up onto the electrode, I swear to God. :mrgreen:

Anyway, stay tuned. Now it's "practice, practice, practice" time.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 12:09 am 
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I've got about three days in on my build. I'm working on the pedal box and the main firewall plate it connects to. I didn't get any photos of my work on the pedal box thus far. It's only partially built, but mostly designed, and waiting on final details once the firewall plate and master cylinders are in place.

Here's my photos from today, which I did remember to take.

I'm working really hard on increasing the accuracy of my layouts and fabrication. In part, it's prep work for the machining I'll need to do in the near future to complete the build. The other part is simply aspirational. I just want to do better work and have a higher level of craftsmanship in my build.

I've gone to layout die, better rules and squares, and fine,hardened scribes for marking. It's paying off, but not as good as I'd like just yet. I've also dropped center drills and started using spot drills instead. That has made a very big difference.
Attachment:
File comment: Layout die, a fine scribe, a Starrett center punch plus a drill locator using the cut off point of an ice pick have helped me increase precision quite a bit.
DSC04136.JPG
DSC04136.JPG [ 131.49 KiB | Viewed 585 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Spot drills have made drilled holes more accurate and saved at least one drill step in making holes in the 1/4"-1/2" range.
DSC04139.JPG
DSC04139.JPG [ 160.78 KiB | Viewed 585 times ]


Some time back I purchased a set of Hougen cutters for larger holes. Holes saws I found to be sloppy and subject to failure and binding up. These new cutters are very nice, but a little scary. They throw out a lot of swarf. It's both hot and sharp. You definitely need a full face shield and a long sleeve shirt when using them, but the results are outstanding.
Attachment:
File comment: It's swarf City when using these boogers, but man they do a nice job.
DSC04137.JPG
DSC04137.JPG [ 140.2 KiB | Viewed 585 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: A partially cut, 1-3/8" hole with a Hougen cutter.
DSC04138.JPG
DSC04138.JPG [ 143.77 KiB | Viewed 585 times ]


Here's the finished firewall plate. The holes (going from lower right to top left) are the clutch master cylinder (M/C), front brake M/C. Rear Brake M/C and the steering shaft penetration.
Attachment:
File comment: Completed firewall plate. It was fully fitted to the chassis tubes prior to these drilling operations.
DSC04140.JPG
DSC04140.JPG [ 136.67 KiB | Viewed 585 times ]


I know I'm a little old school, but I do drawings of everything except simple parts. For those parts, I almost always do a sketch. Otherwise, I find it too easy to make a mistake in fabrication. I would be totally pissed off if I screwed up a part like this one.
Attachment:
File comment: Working drawing used during fabrication.
DSC04141.JPG
DSC04141.JPG [ 129.83 KiB | Viewed 585 times ]


Tomorrow, it's back to some real-life tasks, but I got in 3 solid days in a row, so I'm feeling good about being me today. :-D

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 7:29 am 
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You definitely need a full face shield and a long sleeve shirt when using them,
Yeah, those brush fires in your arm hair are really bothersome... :mrgreen:

That's some really nice looking work, Lonnie... I like the fancy "hole cutters" for large diameters. Lookin' good, Sir!

:cheers:
JDK

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Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 8:04 pm 
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@GonzoRacer
Yeah, those arm hair fires are an unhappy suprise. They really stink too. :mrgreen: Thanks for the compliment on the work quality, JD.

I had a chance this evening to trial fit all the hardware before welding in the firewall plate. If I had to do any rework, I'd rather do on the workbench than in the car. But everything worked out OK. Here's the firewall plate populated with the hardware.
Attachment:
File comment: All hardware trial mounted.
DSC04144.JPG
DSC04144.JPG [ 148.9 KiB | Viewed 539 times ]

The two shorty M/Cs come with remote reservoir kits. I won't know if I'll have space for them elsewhere in the engine compartment for a while. The old Girling style M/C probably can be outfitted as such too, but I haven't looked into it yet. The main thing is they all fit as shown if I need to keep them that way. Of course, I have about enough room for a moth fart between them, but they work and don't touch.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 14, 2018, 7:39 am 
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I have about enough room for a moth fart between them
"The basis of all science is accurate measurement." -- Dr. L. Worth Seagondollar, NCSU Physics Dept.

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: March 14, 2018, 1:01 pm 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
Quote:
I have about enough room for a moth fart between them
"The basis of all science is accurate measurement." -- Dr. L. Worth Seagondollar, NCSU Physics Dept.


What you said! :thmbsup: I draw the line at working with ångströms, however. :mrgreen:

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 14, 2018, 1:11 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
I used to do that, but my $4 Harbor Freight .0000001 angstrom digital caliper broke. I tried to measure a whole millimeter with it, and its little brain went up in smoke... :roll: :D

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PostPosted: March 14, 2018, 2:48 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
I draw the line at working with ångströms, however.
You got something against Swedish people? Most of the Angstroms I've met were nice folks... Well, except for that run-in I had with Lars, but he was drunk at the time...

Hey, I really did have a class under Dr. Seagondollar at NCSU. He had owned -and loved- an MGA at one time in his life and was kind of a "car guy" as nuclear physicists go. He actually said that line about measurements, usually when he couldn't remember a number. He was quite a character... As a grad student, he worked on the Manhattan Project, and was on-site in Alamogordo when they set off the first bomb. He had some stories, lemme tell ya... Some day when you're bored, look him up via the internet.

Peace, Love and "Critical Mass"-
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: March 15, 2018, 1:49 am 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
What you said! I draw the line at working with ångströms, however.


Again I are forced to look up words in the dictionary. Please next time post pictures instead of words.
Now that I are smarter, an ångström is too small of a unit of measurement to gauge the thickness of the hairs on an Alberta horsefly, but not by much.

Back to your build Lonnie. Very nice work on the DS firewall plate, wish I had that kind of talent. You are a cabinet maker, me, I'm more of a framer.

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered


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PostPosted: March 15, 2018, 4:11 am 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
People complain about oversized pics all the time - imagine the hand-wringing if we went the other way, and tried to post a picture of an angstrom???

It would take a googlepoopillion (yes, that's a real term!!) of 'em to fill a gnat's butt...

Oh well, just to be sociable, I posted one here anyway. No, not there, over there. A little more to the left. Down a bit...getting closer... Yep, right there, just in the lower quadrant of that comma. Not that one, the other one.

Glad I could help... :cheers: :roll:

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PostPosted: March 16, 2018, 9:45 am 
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@zetec7
@GonzoRacer
@horchoha

Thanks for the comments, gents.

Yes, I'm having fun trying to see how good I can get with this measurement & layout stuff. I'm probably about the level of a 3-month apprentice at a good machine shop, but I'm striving to actually get good (and confident) at it. My wife calls it "my self-torture" and she may be right [LOL].

So, I has now been 1-upped with "googlepoopillion", which is sure new to me. We'll have to talk with the Harbor Freight guys and see what they can do for us on the googlepoopillion front, don't ya think? Shall we give them a maximum retail cost of $99.95 to shoot for? That would include the 20% coupon of course. Gotta have that. :mrgreen:

Anyway, I'll be back to my build today. We've got great "working" weather for it. It's gray, overcast and slightly rainy today and will likely be 60-65 today. I find those are the best days to work - no distractions - and you're happy to be working hard in your garage without sweating. Believe it or not, a person can get tired of "sunny and 75" all the time.

Cheers all,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 21, 2018, 2:17 pm 
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Work continues on the pedal box setup. Due to the cramped spaces, it has been quite the design problem. I lost count of how many versions I did for individual components, but for the whole environment, which includes the accelerator, brake(s), clutch, master cylinders, steering shaft and ergonomics, I know I've done 9 in all. It's working out, but it is very tight.

If you look at the photo below, you can see quite a bit of the information needed marked out on the temporary wood undertray. The red lines trace out the width of my shoes (adding to the problem, I have large, wide feet). The black line covered in blue tape is the "drop line" for the faces of the brake and clutch pedals. Those come from my earlier work with seating and ergonomics when I did my wooden mock-up. The angle running about vertical is the pedal base mount. It will be fixed to the 16 gauge, steel undertray, chassis lower side rail and the silver tab about mid-field, under the brake M/C rod.
Attachment:
File comment: Pedal base & surroundings.
DSC04153.JPG
DSC04153.JPG [ 142.12 KiB | Viewed 333 times ]


There are a complex series of relationships that have to be satisfied, including the pedal ratios, and the brake pedal in particular. However, there are many conflicting space requirements, including ones on the engine compartment side of things.

As an example, I eventually had to switch to pins versus bolts to save about 1/2" on the pedal base, so that the "axle" for the pedals themselves were short enough to be inserted in the base between the uprights seen below. I'll switch to pins for sailboat rigging in the real car, as I'm confident they will survive any circumstances the car will experience.

In the photo below, the Wilwood balance bar is on the right. You're looking edge-on at a foamcore mock-up of the clutch pedal on the left.
Attachment:
File comment: Clutch and brake pedestal bases welded in place.
DSC04158.JPG
DSC04158.JPG [ 144.18 KiB | Viewed 333 times ]


If you look back a few days, you'll see a photo showing the main firewall plate with the master cylinders with the fluid tanks attached. Just below, you'll see the plate in place and the tanks removed from the master cylinders. One additional issues is that the header for the exhaust exits about the leading edge of the bare spot on the lower chassis rail. I'll need to make a well-insulated heat shield to separate them in the finished car.
Attachment:
File comment: M/Cs in place minus tanks.
DSC04161.JPG
DSC04161.JPG [ 139.05 KiB | Viewed 333 times ]


There will be stops for both pedals front and back, but you can get the idea of how things will look from this profile of the clutch pedal shown below.
Attachment:
File comment: Near profile view of clutch pedal mock-up in place.
DSC04156.JPG
DSC04156.JPG [ 137.5 KiB | Viewed 333 times ]


One thing that has become evident is the long layoff has had a really negative effect on my welding skills. They were getting pretty darn good, but are sub-par now. I'm going to have to take some time and redevelop them.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 21, 2018, 3:28 pm 
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Lonnie,

I hope you know what you are doing on the pedal geometry. I would think that when you have taken up all the slack, both linkage clearance and hydraulic preload, and start applying brake pad pressure to the disks, that the most efficient pushrod mounting hole location on the pedal would create a 90 deg angle between an imaginary line drawn from that mount hole and the pedal pivot and the pushrod itself, and b) be straight in line with the axis of the M/C piston. That will apply axial pressure to the piston, not an offset. It appears that for the clutch M/C, you will have a very large effective pedal ratio (i.e. low motion) because you are not applying rotational energy direct in line with the piston.

This is difficult for me to explain in words. I hope you get it.

These are the guidelines that I used when building my pedals. Mine were hanging pedals but the physics should be similar.

If you have done this before and are confident about what you are doing, ignore this post and move on.

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PostPosted: March 21, 2018, 5:39 pm 
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@rx7locost

Hi Chuck,

I appreciate the concern and the shout-out.

It doesn't show in the photos I posted, but the plunger rod for the master cylinders will be horizontal. Here's a screen shot of the 3D model with everything at actual working height. I haven't built the clutch or brake pedals yet. I wanted to verify all the relationships to the pedal base were OK before I bothered to construct them, as I might have had to make small adjustments otherwise. It's all checked out OK, so I'll start on those tomorrow.

Cheers,
Attachment:
File comment: Final clutch and brake pedals at working height.
Small Final [V9] Gas Pedal Environment.jpg
Small Final [V9] Gas Pedal Environment.jpg [ 72.1 KiB | Viewed 317 times ]

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 22, 2018, 1:08 am 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
I'll need to make a well-insulated heat shield to separate them in the finished car.


You will be surprised how effective a non-insulated heat shield will work. Just a piece of 16ga tin or SS deflects a lot of radiant heat.

_________________
Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered


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