LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently September 17, 2019, 9:09 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: AxeHealey's 442 Build
PostPosted: January 1, 2019, 9:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 10, 2015, 12:39 pm
Posts: 17
A Locost has always been on my "things-I-will-build-one-day" list. Although I'm starting my build log now, there won't be any actual work for some time - possibly years. I've got a long-term Austin Healey 3000 restoration that I'm nearing the end with, a '79 BMW 320i that I vintage race and a '67 F350 that I haul it to the track with. Oh, and on top of all that nonsense, we've got a 9 month old. So daddy physically can't take on another car project right now.

So why start the log now? Because I stumbled upon an offer I couldn't refuse. For a whopping $300, I got a partially finished 442 frame and a running '82 Honda CB650.

Image
Image
Image
Image

The frame includes a section of a Miata's frame rails with a rear subframe bolted to it. The story I got is that an engineering student built it with his father for a project. He then got into building turbo Miatas and this fell by the wayside.

The bike is a peach.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

The previous steward of this fine specimen was a serial drunk rider. Around October, he got pulled over again and the bike went to impound. Once he decided it wasn't worth paying a month or so's worth of indoor storage fees, the tow company sold the bike to the guy I bought it from.

Although I do have a love for old Japanese 4 cylinder motorcycles (I've previously owned a '77 and '78 Suzuki GS550), I initially intended to just sell off the bike to recoup costs and use the extra BMW M10 motor I have sitting in the garage. I then realized that in order to pass the state inspection, I would need a bill of sale for the M10, which I do not have. I'm trying to track down the guy I bought it from but chances are slim.

The frame was dropped off on Sunday and yesterday I started knocking off the surface rust and priming it before hanging it from the ceiling. There's a lot more surface area on the frame than I thought and I ran out of primer. At least most of it is more protected...
Image

Anyways, for the foreseeable future, I hope to use this thread as a sounding board to hash out my plans for the build and get things lined up so that when it's go time, I can take off running.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 2, 2019, 2:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 11, 2013, 4:47 am
Posts: 1109
Location: No. Nevada
I see cooling issues with an air-cooled bike engine. :?:
Also a bit on the small side at 650cc and a steel frame with Miata bits, Locost built-in headwinds, etc. :wink:
I admit I have a 600cc BEC project on my own long term build list but I expect to use an exceedingly light monocoque chassis in my build.
I also hope that the nearly free 600cc practice build engine will eventually be replaced by a larger 900-1000 engine.

_________________
If I must be a one-man PC free zone, so be it!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 2, 2019, 9:47 am 
Offline

Joined: December 10, 2015, 12:39 pm
Posts: 17
I share your concerns, for sure. The power/weight issue is my biggest one. I could see this thing being sort of a pig with this engine. I've already been dreaming up doing much of the rest of the chassis work in aluminum but I'm not sure how feasible that is in terms of strength.

I'm not as worried about cooling. Would just need to be clever about directing air in/out, maybe even some sort of electric fan scenario? I also fully require a nose cone but am not opposed to the look of a Locost with no hood...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 2, 2019, 10:33 am 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 6165
For the rust, I’d use metal prep (phosphorus) in a spray bottle mixed with water.
There is nothing preventing you from selling what you have, then buying it back with a bill of sale for a $1. IMHO, this rule has to do with taxes, not theft.

I’d clean the bike up and sell it. It could make a nice velorex though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np0oAJS ... 8pKUhc5Wus

One cool thing about the velorex is the marine vinyl body. Too hot? Just unbutton a few fasteners and roll the bonnet back. Change the color in 2 minutes for $7/yard. Must like to sew though.


The issue for using the bike engine for me (no emission checks in my area) would be power for accessories. I’d add an alt to the driveshaft or fab pto to bolt on in place of the stator cover for an external alt.

Interesting use of the miata frame rails. I’d start measuring to see if the dims are right for whatever size this is supposed to be. Good point in the build to tweak it one way or the other.

I suggest running the front of the front lcas perpendicular to the longitudinal axis instead of sloping rearward. Makes steering rack placement easier.

_________________
MV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 3, 2019, 9:14 am 
Offline

Joined: December 10, 2015, 12:39 pm
Posts: 17
I'm leaning towards cleaning up the bike and selling it. Only problem is I'll be highly tempted to keep it and ride it...

As for the bill of sale scenario you lay out - that's very interesting and I hadn't thought about that possibility. However, I believe that in Ohio they are in fact worried about theft. I'm going to call the State Patrol sometime today to dig a bit and see what they need in a bill of sale. Do they just need proof of my purchase? Or do they want to trace it back to when it came out of the car...

I've downloaded the McSorely 442 plans from that fantastic website and will definitely be checking dimensions eventually. I really wish the CAD files were available in a format that would work in Rhino.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 3, 2019, 11:17 am 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 6165
AxeHealey wrote:
I believe that in Ohio they are in fact worried about theft. I'm going to call the State Patrol sometime today to dig a bit and see what they need in a bill of sale. Do they just need proof of my purchase? Or do they want to trace it back to when it came out of the car...


You know that isn’t what I said, though if I had an M10 drivetrain with no paperwork, I might be concerned too.

For THEFT, many States check the serial numbers on the drivetrain but it is usually just a partial vin, so if the bill of sale requires a full vin, you may still be out of luck. Also try to build in access to check the numbers later.

You might try providing a certified letter to the State that indicates your intentions and the numbers on the major components. While they won't tell you if they have been reported, it would be difficult for them to justify an issue years later when you've put them on notice. If they are hot, you should find out fairly quickly. Phone calls and email are nothing compared to a certified letter.

You should search the license and title process forum for the word “Ohio” for more info.
You should also look at the year model the vehicle will be tiled as and how that may affect emission checks that determine if you can register; a separate issue from titling.

_________________
MV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 3, 2019, 3:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 10, 2015, 12:39 pm
Posts: 17
Had a very informative conversation with a really helpful guy at the state patrol (not sarcasm). He was actually familiar with Locost builds which was cool. I might give him a call back and run the certified letter idea past him.

In any event - Ohio (with very few exceptions), requires the bill of sale to identify the VIN of the vehicle that the engine came out of. He said that there could even be an issue if the guy who I bought the engine from (who just bought it to part it out) never put the title in his name. That is, even if I find him and he writes up a bill of sale with the VIN, if he never re-titled it in his name before scrapping it, the state has no way of knowing he actually owned the car.

The only situation where neither a bill of sale nor VIN is required is, as the guy put it, when the engine has just been "sitting in the barn for 20 years".

I did take a look through the titling section of the forum this morning and found the thread with the link to all 50 states requirements, thanks for the heads up.

EDIT - My friend at the state patrol clarified that there is NOT an issue if the guy didn't put the title in his name. So that's nice. He also said that the certified letter route is a no-go.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 4, 2019, 5:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 30, 2011, 7:18 am
Posts: 1546
Location: central Arkansas
With careful ducting and an electric fan you could make the CB650 work, and it has more power than an early Lotus 7... but alternator output would always be an issue in stop-and-go traffic, and you'd have to build a driveshaft coupler and some kind of reverse, and a lot of smaller motorcycle engines have clutches that aren't happy with the extra weight of a car.

If it was a more powerful motor and you wanted a BEC it would be one thing, but the hassle of using the CB650 far outweighs the "got it for free" part.

My suggestion would be to trade the bike for a donor car or mini-truck with a driveline more suitable for your car. It would save a whole lot of work and aggravation.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 4, 2019, 8:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: January 31, 2012, 12:49 pm
Posts: 1711
Location: Louisville KY
Reverse?

_________________
***************
Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.
Girlfriend thinks I'm nuts for building this....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 6, 2019, 8:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 10, 2015, 12:39 pm
Posts: 17
TRX wrote:
With careful ducting and an electric fan you could make the CB650 work, and it has more power than an early Lotus 7... but alternator output would always be an issue in stop-and-go traffic, and you'd have to build a driveshaft coupler and some kind of reverse, and a lot of smaller motorcycle engines have clutches that aren't happy with the extra weight of a car.

If it was a more powerful motor and you wanted a BEC it would be one thing, but the hassle of using the CB650 far outweighs the "got it for free" part.

My suggestion would be to trade the bike for a donor car or mini-truck with a driveline more suitable for your car. It would save a whole lot of work and aggravation.


Great points you raise there, I'm heavily leaning towards getting rid of the bike. I spent a little time yesterday with it and was able to get it running so now it's worth a bit more. I also got the title transferred to my name so I can legitimately consider selling it. I may tinker with it when I need a minute or two over the winter and make it a bit prettier and then put it up for sale in the spring.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY