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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:20 am 
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Location: Phoenix arizona
Its been a few months ,but im plodding along ..i have decided on using pontiac solstice front suspension..the only thing i may change is i may make my own bottom arms..the pontiac ones are really bulky and im not sure if its what i want.The nose and scuttle i got from jack at kinetic..great guy to deal with.The upper frame tubes i have decided to double for 2 reasons,one obviously strength..i saw this on a twin bike engine build in england and it seems like a no brainer for a few pounds of steel and i also gives me an extra inch in height ,as i have a tall engine this helps because i dont have to add more to my nose hood and scuttle.I cut the 5 inch rings for my rear spindles and this week i will be cutting the plate for them..gotta love the plasma cutter!.I have also added some more tubes in my tranny tunnel area for some more strenght.wayne-o


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:08 am 
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Location: Cave Creek, AZ
Looking good Wayne. Those Solstice spindles look great but with that big Nissan powerhouse, I think you should use a bigger cable tie to attach them. :lol:


Tom

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:41 am 
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Location: Tennessee
So, when finished you'll have a Lolstice. :cheers:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:24 am 
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When different uprights and arms are swapped into an existing Locost chassis, the resulting suspension characteristics may be very different from what it was. Was suspension analysis sw used to find what it'll be like?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Actually, the uprights should be chosen and the suspension designed before the chassis is designed. The first person I heard state that was Kurt(KB58). When I first heard that statement, I didn't get it. I was, and still am, a newbe, but after thinking about it a while, I realized he was correct. If the chassis is already designed, then you may not be able to design a correct suspension using a particular upright. Things like rack placement may become problematic. Interference might raise it's ugly head with things like the rack or the upper arm and coilover. The FU tubes especially can be a problem. I had to make some compromises on my build because the chassis was already done and I couldn't place the rack ahead of the lower arm as I would have preferred. I had to redesign my lower arm to relieve interference with the rack. I'm not an expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Location: Phoenix arizona
I agree that the frame should be designed around the suspension..but that would mean at least 20 variants in frame size due to the different tupes of spindles and parts used,so I think at some point we just have to bite the bullet and use what we think will work..as far as software goes im probably going to use a good old fashioned book and a ruler..camber caster guage..just like the lotus guys and everyone else has for 50 years..maybee pook may share info on that one ..ill have to ask nicely and see..tom im thinking those cable ties wont last well under hard cornering..maybee bailing wire?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:44 pm 
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wayne-o wrote:
I agree that the frame should be designed around the suspension..but that would mean at least 20 variants in frame size due to the different tupes of spindles and parts used...

Variants aren't an issue - it's your combination that needs to be understood. Bolting on different uprights and arms to an existing chassis results in mystery roll-center, bumpsteer, camber gain, and castor. The sw/drawings/pencil-and-ruler can be used to find where to place the front chassis tubes in order to make the suspension do what you want. Without working that out ahead of time, it's blind chance what the combination may give. It might be fine, and it might not.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Kb58 ..thats true but that exact same rule would apply to anything but the first car old colin designed.In this process of building a vehicle from scratch one has to start somewhere and that involves building a frame ..adding suspension and all the rest of the parts..if I went thru all the build logs ever made id bet there would only be a handfull of people that have ever sat down and built the frame around their suspension..i understand what your saying is correct..but im going to make this suspension work..just like thousands do .Im fortunate to be around many race cars and exotics at work so I have a good understanding of what gets adapted to make things work.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:25 pm 
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Location: Laveen, AZ
Those control arms are zip tied on and not welded. I doubt Wayne has any intention of solidly welding brackets on without using a tape measure, some string and looking at the camber and roll characteristics and whatnot. Looking forward to progress on that stuff ... :)

-Steve

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:53 pm 
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wayne-o wrote:
...that exact same rule would apply to anything but the first car old colin designed. In this process of building a vehicle from scratch one has to start somewhere and that involves building a frame ..adding suspension and all the rest of the parts..if I went thru all the build logs ever made id bet there would only be a handfull of people that have ever sat down and built the frame around their suspension..i understand what your saying is correct..but im going to make this suspension work..just like thousands do .Im fortunate to be around many race cars and exotics at work so I have a good understanding of what gets adapted to make things work.

As long as you go into the project with both eyes open, that's fine. I was only pointing it out because others may decide it's okay to use whatever suspension they want with a given chassis without understanding the ramifications.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:13 am
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Location: Phoenix arizona
Thanks steve for the positive feedback,and thanks for showing me your car..i went out and looked at mine last night and after looking at yours ,mine looks like a limo! ..its amazing how big a 442 is compared to a std sized frame.The best thing people can do with this building stuff is get together with positive people that can bounce great ideas off each other..i met steve [sven] last night face to face and i drove home excited at the ideas he had on my suspension and wiring issues..this can make your build feel easier when there are things that you arent sure of,also we all have tools and they can be shared to get all kinds of things built..without having to fill your shop up with 20grands worth of tools that you may use twice a year.
wayne-o


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:35 am 
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Location: Cave Creek, AZ
I still think you need bigger zip ties. :lol:

After a few setbacks, I've found a frame with some suspension bits, cheap enough that I can afford it. Don't know exactly what size it is but it looks smaller than yours Wayne. For what I had to pay, I will just put up with the smaller size.

I'll start a build log and post some pics.

Tom

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:01 am 
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Location: Tennessee
Based on what you have said so far, here is what I think will happen in your build. You will build the frame, a 442 or whatever, and you will build the suspension using the Solstice uprights. You will modify the frame, possibly the FU tubes, but maybe other things also, to accomodate the control arms of the Solstice, as well as the steering rack you have chosen. The reason I'm saying this is because this is exactly what I did. Since this was my first build, I didn't see the BIG PICTURE. I built the frame (a 442) and then I built the control arms :cheers: (in my case a Miata), but the frame wasn't designed for a Miata. so I had to change the frame to match the uprights. All I'm saying is, make sure your uprights will work with the correct geometry and the frame, before building it and the steering rack you use will also work. Don't take this the wrong way, it's not a criticism, but a heads up.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:55 am 
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Location: Laveen, AZ
Went and visited Wayne this week and saw his project. I never would have thought that motor would fit, but it does. The car is going to be amazing when he has it done.

Now get to work! :)

-Steve

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Last edited by Sven on Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:28 am 
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Location: Denver,CO
What are you planing on doing about the NATS. Are you running a full Nissan ecu with key and all or some sort of standalone?

evo

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