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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Location: Buffalo, NY/Williamsport, PA
After lurking in the shadows for a while i figured i would make my first post and start a build log to document what i have done so far.
I don't have all the details figured out but what i have decided on is...
Use a saturn LLO twin cam because i am kind of a saturn nut.
Transmission? plan on fabricating a bell housing to adapt to the saturn LLO
Rear end will be a solid axel but i am still debating on the choices.
Fiero front spindles and brakes.
Triumph Steering rack
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This is the setup it is a little cramped space wise thus the very small table but it is flat and it gets the job done.
Oh and i think the image is a little big but i don't know a good way to make it smaller.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:13 pm 
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We are Slotus!
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Howdy Lee-
Welcome to the group! Sounds like an interesting powertrain... I don't recall seeing a Saturn based Locost, but there might be one back there somewhere. Or you might be unique! Either way, good luck with your build, and keep us posted on your progress!
:cheers:
JD Kemp

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:16 pm 
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I was pretty happy with how all the joints fitted up very little filing needed to be done.
Although in the excitement i didn't clean the areas to be welded but i can go back and do that before i weld them completely.
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Welcome. Looks like you have a healthy start, and a good plan. I like the barrels for the table! When your done with the Locost, you can brew a healthy batch of beer, you'll deserve it.

Maybe we'll get some welding advice out of you. If you feel like including some info/tutorial about what your doing on your frame in your log, I'm sure many will appreciate it.

Good luck. You can look in Moderbeat's posts for some pictures and info on Fiero spindles. Spitfire spindles are good too.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Location: central Arkansas
WelderLee wrote:
Transmission? plan on fabricating a bell housing to adapt to the saturn LLO


Eh, wot? I thought the Saturn used the GM "corporate V6" bellhousing pattern.

BTW, I like the power hacksaw!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Location: Cleveland, OH
TRX wrote:
WelderLee wrote:
Transmission? plan on fabricating a bell housing to adapt to the saturn LLO


Eh, wot? I thought the Saturn used the GM "corporate V6" bellhousing pattern.

BTW, I like the power hacksaw!


I'm fairly certain that the only thing the LL0 shares with the rest of GM is a couple of sensors.

OP, glad to see somebody use a Saturn engine on one of these. I've been contemplating a LL0 based middy myself. It's hard to come up with a lighter DOHC 4-banger, let alone for as cheap as you can get an LL0 these days.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:42 pm 
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TRX wrote:
WelderLee wrote:
Transmission? plan on fabricating a bell housing to adapt to the saturn LLO


Eh, wot? I thought the Saturn used the GM "corporate V6" bellhousing pattern.

BTW, I like the power hacksaw!


Yea Saturn was designed from the ground up so it does not share any standard gm anything. I need to find someone with a junk block so i can get the bolt pattern measurements off of the back of the block because i cannot find them anywhere on the internet.

The power hack saw was the best 25 dollars i ever spent and being much quieter than my chop saw it keeps the neighbors happy late at night.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:47 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
Welcome. Looks like you have a healthy start, and a good plan. I like the barrels for the table! When your done with the Locost, you can brew a healthy batch of beer, you'll deserve it.

Maybe we'll get some welding advice out of you. If you feel like including some info/tutorial about what your doing on your frame in your log, I'm sure many will appreciate it.

Good luck. You can look in Moderbeat's posts for some pictures and info on Fiero spindles. Spitfire spindles are good too.


i like the beer idea, the table is pretty stable as it is and if you want a little more you can just add some water to the barrel. Maybe i should start the beer sooner and use it to hold my table down while i work.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:48 am 
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WelderLee wrote:
The power hack saw was the best 25 dollars i ever spent and being much quieter than my chop saw it keeps the neighbors happy late at night.


I've got a junk block you can have for free if you can come pick it up.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:33 pm 
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DasPirate wrote:
WelderLee wrote:
The power hack saw was the best 25 dollars i ever spent and being much quieter than my chop saw it keeps the neighbors happy late at night.


I've got a junk block you can have for free if you can come pick it up.


I wish i was closer but 300 miles is a bit of a drive. I am hoping to find one in Central PA or Western NY

Although all i really need is the dimensions for the bolt holes in relation to the center of the crank so i can decide if using the saturn engine is possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:37 pm 
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WelderLee wrote:
Saturn was designed from the ground up so it does not share any standard gm anything. I need to find someone with a junk block so i can get the bolt pattern measurements off of the back of the block because i cannot find them anywhere on the internet.


Well, if you're sure... some Honda and Isuzu drivelines also used the Corporate V6 pattern, and some of the transverse V8s, so that's just plain weird.

If you make an adapter, the generally accepted maximum figure for axial misalignment of the crank to input shaft is .015".

Generally there are two dowels that locate the block and bellhousing. The rest of the bolt holes have clearance. You don't have to sweat the alignment of those.

Sometimes you have bolt holes that intersect, or line up with something they shouldn't. It doesn't hurt to twist the transmission and bellhousing off vertical if you need to. Chevy twisted the T-5 transmission of the previous-generation Camaro quite a bit (15 deg?) to move the shifter closer to the driver.

Not every bolt is absolutely necessary, if you wind up with a bad interference problem somewhere. Bottom bolts are more important than upper, since they bear the tension load from the weight of the engine and transmission across their mounts.

The 99% alignment method is to make a mandrel to bolt onto the back of the crank, which slides over the bearing retainer where the throwout bearing moves. Then you can slide the engine and trans together and work on your adapter.

The 100% method is to make a bar that bolts into the mains and extends into the input bearing recess of the transmission. Not worth the effort in my opinion.

Make sure the pressure plate swings inside the bellhousing without hitting anything, and there's room for the throwout bearing and actuator!

In some cases, if you slide the engine and crank together with an adapter as above, you can weld tabs onto the outside of the bellhousing, or weld tubes in, and avoid the whole "adapter plate" thing. Grind, fit, then have it all TIGged together. Or hee-hawed, or mamawed, or whatever they call it now.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:23 am 
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I can never remember the name of the company, but before they started using the S2000 engine, they used 170hp Saturn 1.9's with an rx7 trans... ultralight or something similar... so it has been done. Unfortumately, I haven't found a single copy to ask questions about... there is a picture of the engine bay somewhere.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:43 am 
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The Ultralite used the Saturn engine when they began.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:08 pm 
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I got some more work done this weekened finished tacking together the role frame minus all of the diaganals and i also successfully bent the tues that make up the rear of the frame. The bends turned out way better than i thought they would. I used 3/4 stainless steel tubing with a wall thickness of 0.065 which was kindly donated to me. :o I decides i Wanted to bend the tube with heat using sand to keep the tube from collapsing. After some though i determined that a 3/8" pipe tap was just the right size to thread the inside of the tubes allowing me to thread in a male pipe plug. After standing the tube on end i poured dry sand down tamping it in with a long dowel every few inches until i reached the threads, allowing the pipe plug to further compress the sand upon screwing it in. If you are going to do this make sure you use dry sand because moisture can cause steam, and expanding steam in a compressed red hot tube is never a good thing. I took the tube filled with sand an placed it in my bender designed for bending flat stock with a 1.25in. radius die to give me a 2in outside radius in the tubing. After heating the area to be bent red hot and bending the results are bellow. There is a slight flat on the inside but nothing major.

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:20 pm 
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TRX wrote:

The 99% alignment method is to make a mandrel to bolt onto the back of the crank, which slides over the bearing retainer where the throwout bearing moves. Then you can slide the engine and trans together and work on your adapter.


Thanks for the info something along the lines of the 99% method was what i was thinking. Its good to know the different ways it can be done.


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