LocostUSA.com

Just cancelled my rack order with Victoria British: the part was $199 but their shipping estimate was $165

I'm now trying Moss, who will give me a shipping estimate on Monday. Their rack is a little bit dearer at $219.

I can get a Flaming River MGB rack from my local auto parts store, but it will be $425 plus about a $20 special order charge. The Flaming river rack has a shorter pinion shaft than stock, which is advantageous - but not at a $200 premium. If Moss' shipping is also silly, then the premium for the Flaming River product becomes more palatable.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

I've gotten a couple of good ones off eBay for around $50-$75 shipped.

I thought I’d do this as a couple of posts, with the first one giving the ‘big picture’ and warning JD that the next post would be mainly about the travails of (aaaack!) br....br.... those things. Progress hasn’t been as good as it might have because I got diverted by weather that stayed colder than we expected – and last weekend I drove to Maine and back (8 hours each way) for a wonderful end to the iceboating season on Moosehead Lake.

I now have some suspension bits hanging off the right front corner of the car. They’re only tacked on of course, because my rack hasn’t arrived yet and I need to confirm that there is no interference between the tie rod and the front leg of the LCA on full jounce. I also need to pop a caliper onto the suspension upright to see if I have interference with the after leg of the LCA on full right lock. Fingers crossed …

In the end I sprung for the Flaming River rack with its short pinion shaft. Shipping a stock rack from Victoria British was offensively expensive, and Moss never even bothered to follow through with a shipping quote. Perry told me of a rebuilt rack listed at Rock Auto for under a hundred bucks, but unfortunately, they only had right hand drive ones left. I’m getting the Flaming River rack through my local auto parts shop – his sources seem to have shipping charges (due to volume I guess) that are waaaay better than us mortals can get.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

Br*ckets. Grrrrr. Are challenges good for soul, or simply exercise for the brain?

Unhappily for me, the ‘L’ and ‘FU’ tubes on this non-standard COLD chassis are located with their faces parallel to the ‘F’ tubes (using Ron Champion’s tube naming convention) rather than being parallel to the centerline of the chassis. This made fit-up of UCA brackets more challenging than it needed to be.

The easiest solution for the forward bracket was to use Kinetic-style plate brackets, which could be bent to address the misalignment between the planes of the UCA ends and the ‘L’ tubes. Mounting the after bracket was also challenged by the presence of the diagonal ‘TR’ tube. In this case a bracket was made (with much fiddling) from square tube, to allow loads to be shared with the upper chassis longitudinal (tube ‘J’). ‘Fiddly’ was the word, because I predrilled the pivot hole and had to sneak up on the fit. It didn’t work of course, causing misalignment of the hole, so I ended up doing some plug welding using copper washers as a cobbled-up backer block.

The rear bracket for the LCA was the easiest one of the four, being variant of that used by Uncle Ron, albeit farther aft. I simply made the bracket out of rectangular tubing.

The forward bracket for the LCA was the most challenging to implement. The pivot point is way out there in space, and not aligned with the ‘L’ tube, although that was a conscious decision. To align the forward arm with the ‘L’ tube I would have had to have bent the forward LCA tube to avoid interference with the mounting palm of the lower ball joint. But there was some overlap on the ‘L’ tube so the inboard end of bracket, again made from tube, was quite complex. Unfortunately, I’m not building a tricycle, so I have to look forward to a second one.

Fitting the coil-over was no big deal, with this bracket only requiring a notch to be welded to the upper longitudinal. I do need to decide whether I will want a cross-tube connecting the right and left brackets, once I do have a left one, that is.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

I feel your pain. I had a couple pieces that quickly earned the title bitch Tube.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

I vote for the former category, and would add that they are inherently EEEEE-Ville little bastiges.

Actually, Warren, while I would not ever wish you any bad luck, if I'm being honest, I'm kinda relieved that somebody besides ME is fighting with br*ckets. I mean, I realized long ago that I was the Goober in the crowd here, not an engineer, not a welder, not a fabricator... etc, etc, etc. But if you're fighting with 'em too, then maybe I ain't so dumb after all, ya know???

Hang in there Bro, you can whip 'em into shape, I BEEE-LEEEVE!!!!

(And keep one extra br*cket lying around, so when working on them just gets to be too much, you can grab the big hammer and pound the little sh*t flat on the top of the vise. You'll feel better afterwards. Cheaper than a therapist, too...)

Regards-
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

I like the meat in your brackets, Warren. I have yet to face this challenge, but suspect I'll end up feeling the same way about Br*ckets as the rest of you.

I should add that I'll be very interested in how your Flaming River steering rack works out. They seem to be my best bet too.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Lonnie,

I will post or PM when I know. I reflect that I could have used a MII rack, but .... since I was tight for space on the upper control arm brackets I couldn't make the MII rack 'right' by reducing track. I would have had to have made my LCAs longer by some undetermined amount - it would have taken an iterative redisign of my suspension geometry with the UCAs and the UCA brackets as fixed points. Since I'd just finished building new LCAs and didn't relish the prospect of throwing them away, or redoing the suspension design process, the extra $200 (round numbers) for the Flaming River rack seemed like a good deal. A stock MGB rack would have done too, had I found a supplier with sensible shipping.

Since you are in the US, if the stock (long) pinion shaft on an MGB rack doesn't cause you problems, Victoria British or Moss Motors might be a cost-effective alternative. UPS IS a good deal for shipping as long as you don't cross borders .... (Victoria British is the Brit import arm of LMC Truck). But the pinion shaft on a stock MGB rack is looooong. That may not be an issue if you're lucky, or have a tame machinist.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

Grrrrr ....

While waiting for my rack to arrive I've been putting off doing the LHS front suspension, in case I have to undo something because of interference between the tie rod and the LCA, but I thought I might as well set up the br*cket alignment jigs. So I carefully set things up to get the axis of the front wheels perpendicular to the centreline.

Of course, then the inner end of the UCA didn't quite align with the chassis verticals (LB and FU1, per Uncle Ron); indeed, the spacing of LB and FU1 is not quite the same as the other side. So, I slid the LHS wheel back an eighth to get the best comprimise fit when the time comes to weld on br*ckets. I suppose that side-to-side variation in wheelbase won't be all that bad; indeed, an eighth tolerance over chassis length may not be unusual.

I once owned a Renault 5 that had a 2 inch difference between left and right wheelbase on purpose. This oddity was a result of the soft French suspension. The torsion bars for the rear of the car extended the full width of the body and I suppose it was cheaper to stagger the rear wheels than manufacture left and right trailing arms of different lengths. It didn't seem to make any difference between performance on left and right turns, but to use the word 'handling' in the same breath as 'softly-sprung Renault' is probably an abuse of terminology.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

the rear wheels on a renault 5 were not really for any handling, they just stopped the back from draging on the ground.

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this story shall the good man teach his son,
and chrispin chrispian shall ne'er go by,
from this day to the end of the world.
but we in it shall be remembered.

I always took a great deal of satisfaction from the ride of my R5 given the engineers claimed they modeled it on the feel of Catherine Deneuve's breasts. Do you think they were lying? It was a wonderful thought, anyway.

However, this was the R5 I fancied at the time. It got damn close to arriving in the USA too and had a little run as an IMSA GTU car. I did see it race and it was fun to watch.



R5 Turbo ==> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4StsQdMKhsM

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

repeat after me... Jeeeeeannnnnn.... Jeannnnnnnnn.... Jeaaaaaannnnn......

My R12 (please don't laugh too hard) gave a whole new meaning to "French Roll." I sold it off shortly before it became "French Toast." IT was a magnificent car, 'cause it gave me a lot of opportunities to practice my mechanical skills, and encouraged me to buy my first metric wrenches within days of my purchase.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

I don't want to hijack Warren's thread, so I'll be relatively brief.

I have a soft spot for French cars. Most car guys would say that soft spot is at the back of my head and that my skull never grew over properly from infancy. However, the fact that I had a small business in high school repairing all the Dauphines in town lead me into the never-world of French automobiles. It also paid the freight on many modifications to my 1940 Ford hot rod and was a lot more interesting than flipping burgers.

The Renault dealer in our town went out of business in my sophmore year. My father had a Dauphine and I fixed his routinely. None of the mechanics in town knew what to do with a rear engined, wet sleeved, metric, 4-cylinder engine with the radiator just behind the rear seat but I did, so word got out. I've had a number of French cars over the years and think the Citroen 2CV is true automotive genius. If I had the garage space, I'd have a 2CV, DS and SM with a Renault 4CV an Renault-Alpine 110 thrown in for giggles.

Are there any other French car lovers out there? Maybe we should start a support group with an associated 12-step program?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Lonnie,

No problem .... When you said Citroen SM, I thought "Mmmmm". That was a nice car. When I lived in England there were lots of nice French cars about, even though Ducelier makes Lucas look good! I did like my R5 - it was a European version of course and would happily motorway cruise at 70MPH despite its 850cc engine and umbrella handle shifter. The North-Americanized versions that found their way across the pond were pretty horrific in comparison. There were a few others I liked - mainly Citroens and Peugeots, but the model numbers are long lost from my memory.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

Thanks for the "bye", Warren. I didn't want to be piggy with your build log space and I'm glad it was OK with you.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886