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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: May 24, 2011, 12:35 pm 
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Location: Rochester, NY
carguy123 wrote:
Your touch ups and adjustments are a great argument for paint over powder coating.

Thanks - I've flatted it down and it should work well once I have everything placed. I'm not sure when MNR went to powdercoat as several other builds seem to use bare aluminum.
first350 wrote:
what are you doing for a reverse gear? (IIRC MNR's electric unit sits in the middle of the driveshaft area...)
MNR stopped doing electric reverse units a while ago. Their mechanical unit sits in the location where my center bearing is. I chose to not use a mechanical unit although I've heard the MNR one is very good. I plan on fabricating an electric reverse mounted beside the engine (off the rear of the engine as it would be in a bike) as there seems to be plenty of room on that side of the engine bay. Probably something off the engine mounts themselves. I need a starter motor that runs the opposite direction to the way the R1 starter works, but I have not fully researched a suitable one yet. With bike engine starters using permanent magnets I'm thinking it is easy to reverse direction anyway?


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PostPosted: June 12, 2011, 6:36 pm 
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Its been a while since I posted an update. Been travelling and other commitments, but I have finished plumbing in the fuel pump with pre filter and also tidied up and terminated the fuel pipes at the engine bay in preparation for the motor to be reinstalled.
I have also been working some more on the wiring which is actually making progress (I keep telling myself) but not much to show for it yet.
In order to do something different to wiring for a change of pace I did turn my attention to the front and rear suspension.
Attachment:
rear suspension.jpg

Attachment:
front suspension.jpg

Attachment:
front coilovers.jpg


Its all gone together pretty well, though it has taken some time figuring out which way around the wishbones go and the correct spacing to get everything together. Still, other than opening up a few holes (and even then usually just cleaning out the powdercoat) everything has gone together extremely well. I did have to chase out a thread in the left hand rear upright as I couldnt get the bolt in, not sure if it was weld splatter or what, but otherwise I have had no issues whatsoever with build quality of everything.

All for now. I'll be getting wiring done enough to hopefully refit and fire up the motor as the next stage....


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PostPosted: June 12, 2011, 6:56 pm 
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Hey Paul:

The R1 build your looking for is probably http://www.underwood-racing.com/project_seven.htm.

It is a work of art and extremely well produced.

Cheers,
M

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PostPosted: June 12, 2011, 11:01 pm 
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hard to tell from the pics, but FYI you can flop the front upper control arms 180 degrees and change the caster...or at least on my MNR Miata I could. (one was had little caster, whereas the flopping it gave a normal amount)

the build is looking good - can't wait to see more pics!

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PostPosted: June 13, 2011, 8:46 pm 
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monte montemagni wrote:
Hey Paul:

The R1 build your looking for is probably http://www.underwood-racing.com/project_seven.htm.

It is a work of art and extremely well produced.



Monte - thanks for the link, lots of nice stuff there.

first350 wrote:
hard to tell from the pics, but FYI you can flop the front upper control arms 180 degrees and change the caster...or at least on my MNR Miata I could. (one was had little caster, whereas the flopping it gave a normal amount)


Peter - here is a top view of the driver side, this looked to me to be the correct way for the top wishbones.
Attachment:
top wishbone.jpg

Question - are the lower wishbones similar to this on the Miata version? I was unsure with the pushrod mount being underneath the wishbone itself (looks better I suppose but seems wrong somehow), however it seems thats the way that the lower ball joint seemed to make sense to me.
Attachment:
front lower wishbone.jpg


hmm, glad I posted this - I just noticed it appears the rotor on the driver side as pictured looks wrong - the slots go the wrong way, the passenger side is correct


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PostPosted: June 14, 2011, 9:55 am 
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Spenny wrote:
Peter - here is a top view of the driver side, this looked to me to be the correct way for the top wishbones.

-That looks correct to me...you can see that the push rod is closer to the front portion of the upper control arm, which means you're set to have more caster. (I had mine flipped 180 initially and my first driving impression was that the steering didn't auto-center very well...after flipping mine to match how yours looks, it self-centered much better)


Spenny wrote:
Question - are the lower wishbones similar to this on the Miata version? I was unsure with the pushrod mount being underneath the wishbone itself (looks better I suppose but seems wrong somehow), however it seems thats the way that the lower ball joint seemed to make sense to me.


mine looks fairly different...I recall see that set-up on other MNR's, but don't recall if the mount on the LCA should be below or above; seems odd that it would be below...that means the welds have to hold all of the forces in tension. If it was above, the welds would keep it in place and the LCA would take the forces in compression. I'll check around the locost UK site and see if I can find any pics...

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PostPosted: June 14, 2011, 10:07 am 
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On the lower arm is the outer bearing held in with a circlip? If it is, you would want the cup the bearing fits in to to face down and have the circlip on the bottom so it doesn't bear the force of the car and spring in bumps.

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PostPosted: June 14, 2011, 11:58 am 
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First350 wrote:
mine looks fairly different...I recall see that set-up on other MNR's, but don't recall if the mount on the LCA should be below or above; seems odd that it would be below...that means the welds have to hold all of the forces in tension. If it was above, the welds would keep it in place and the LCA would take the forces in compression.


horizenjob wrote:
On the lower arm is the outer bearing held in with a circlip? If it is, you would want the cup the bearing fits in to to face down and have the circlip on the bottom so it doesn't bear the force of the car and spring in bumps.


Thanks guys - Peter - i had exactly the same thought process about the welds taking the forces in tension, Horizenjob - you are exactly right; the bearing is held in place with a circlip so if the arm is flipped the circlip will take all the road force. I figured this is the lesser of two evils. I appreciate the help!


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PostPosted: July 19, 2011, 8:16 pm 
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Just a small update as I havent had much time available for the car over the last few weeks, and most of the time I have spent has been wiring. I made up an aluminum panel to mount the ECU and other electrical components. I mounted the original bike loom fuse box next to the battery. I still have to extend the wiring to the throttle bodies and for the starter relays (2 relays - one for engine start and one for reverse) which will be on the passenger footwell panel).
My plan is get the motor to start by end of month, so I need to get cracking!

.
Attachment:
wiring 7-19-11.jpg


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PostPosted: July 21, 2011, 10:40 am 
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Quick note: when you affix your rear fenders, make sure your suspension is near normal ride height…I centered mine around the rear hubs w/ the suspension at full droop; turns out the hubs move aft once compressed (or at least my Miata version does). So once on the ground, my wheels were not centered!

-Peter

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PostPosted: July 22, 2011, 8:02 pm 
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first350 wrote:
Quick note: when you affix your rear fenders, make sure your suspension is near normal ride height…I centered mine around the rear hubs w/ the suspension at full droop; turns out the hubs move aft once compressed (or at least my Miata version does). So once on the ground, my wheels were not centered!

-Peter


Thanks for the info Peter. I'll be sure to watch out for that when I get there. I probably would have done the same thing. Seems like thats a long way off right now!
I did get out to the car today, got the oil sensor and crank position sensor connections in. I can see the end of the wiring task in sight now.
I just got one of these for controlling the turn signals:
Attachment:
Self_Canceling_T_4ae7308aca7fa.jpg

It will allow me to use 2x momentary pushbuttons on the steering wheel to use for turn signals and hazards, very small unit and very easy to install.

Paul


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PostPosted: August 8, 2011, 8:24 pm 
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Its alive!
Managed to spend some time this weekend on the car. Got the engine loom complete, connected up the fuel lines and she fired right up! Had a small glitch getting all the error codes cleared and I accidentally fried my fuel level sender by hitting it with 12v, but overall a good weekends work! Now just need to wire up an EXUP eliminator to eliminate the only error code left on the clocks and I'm all good. A big relief to to get this over with.


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PostPosted: August 14, 2011, 6:44 pm 
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I made templates for cutting the holes in the tub for the front suspension as well as the exhaust cutout. I have not yet replaced the tub to check and cut anything yet however.
In the meantime I mocked up the mounts for my electric reverse mechanism. For now I've used 1/4" thick wood to trial things before cutting from aluminum plate. It all bolts to the engine mounting points. I had to grind back the fabricated engine mounts a little to make it fit but for the most part the plates will just take the place of washers or spacers that would be there anyway. I want to mount everything up before drawing up a custom gear to mount on the prop adapter.
I'm using a Yamaha FJ1100 / 1200 starter motor and reduction gear. I'm thinking with the reduction in place the relatively low torque of a M/C versus a car starter will be sufficient and its a lot lighter. Reverse engagement will be by sliding the reduction gear on its shaft (will be spring loaded to "safe").
I'll use a switch to sense where the gear is engaged, wired to the sidestand input on the ECU so that the motor will stall if in gear when reverse is engaged. Will also run this switch in series to a switch on the clutch such that when the gear is engaged AND the clutch is engaged (with bike engine in neutral) the motor will run. Therefore reversing will be intuitive if not exactly smooth.
Attachment:
reverse mockup1.jpg

There are 2 solenoids mounted on the passenger footwell, top one is for engine start, bottom one is for reverse.
Attachment:
reverse mockup2.jpg

I'm considering making a sheetmetal cover to keep road debris out, but this location should allow for easy maintenance. I expect this to be a "high maintenance" area, if it works at all, but there is a relatively large space to work in.
Attachment:
reverse mockup3.jpg


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PostPosted: August 16, 2011, 1:56 pm 
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Nice work!

-Steve

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PostPosted: September 18, 2011, 8:33 pm 
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After refitting the tub, I made the cutouts in the body for the front suspension and the exhaust.
Attachment:
body holes pass side.JPG

Attachment:
body holes dvr side.JPG

Attachment:
body holes exhaust.JPG


I have also got further with my reverse mechanism.
The starter and reduction gear are from a yamaha FJ1100/1200. This starter rotates CW as viewed from front so this works for my application with a reduction gear in between. I had the gear measured, so for those that may be interested here are the details of the reduction gear:
SMALL GEAR:
Number of Teeth = 12
Normal Module = 2.25
OD (mm) = 33.68
Root Dia (mm) = 23.37
Face Width (mm) = 5.0

LARGE GEAR:
Number of Teeth = 55
Normal Module = 1.25
Normal Pressure Angle = 20
OD (mm) = 70.10
Root Dia (mm) = 64.39
Face Width (mm) = 6.5

Both gears are 20 deg pressure angle.

I am making up a drawing for a gear to be made to fit on the prop adapter to mate to the small gear. This being a 2.25 MOD its not a stock item, but I was expecting to get something wire EDM'd anyway. Once I get the gear modelled I will post the CAD file also. So in the meantime I finished the rest of the mechanism and installed it onto the motor mounts:
Attachment:
reverse box1.JPG

Attachment:
reverse box 2.JPG

Attachment:
reverse box installed.JPG

I have ordered a 1/4 turn to lock choke cable to operate the mechanism, will post an update when i get this installed

I also made up a bracket for a microswitch and a cam to activate it based on the clutch position.
Attachment:
clutch switch bracket and cam.JPG

Attachment:
clutch switch install1.JPG


I also installed a similar switch that is activated when the gear is moved into reverse position. I'll have to take a photo and post at a later time.

Oh, also got clutch and throttle cables installed. Just some fine tuning and pedal stops required before I can refit the body and move on.


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