LocostUSA.com

Just over 6 months since the last time I worked on it/posted anything. Such a disappointment, haha. Just glad that I'm finally getting back into the groove and starting back up on it. Getting so confused on that one thing really set me off - it shouldn't have, but it did. I just need to keep telling myself there are other things to be doing, and it's okay to put something aside for a little while so you can get a fresh look at it later. I've been scouring the forums all day and have come up with a couple excellent mounting techniques that I'll be looking into applying to my own project. I do wish that I kept the rear subframe and just used it. Oh well - too little too late.

So Paul, yes, I will definitely take you up on another ride - haha. I could never get enough rides! Maybe by the time we get together again, I'll have this thing rolling and we can push it up and down my driveway! HAHA!

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-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...

Finally getting my ass in gear and getting back to it (I say this everytime, but this time, I mean it!). Picked up the stuff the finish mounting my rear diff (a hockey puck, go figure, in true locost style). Also picked up a bolt to mock up a rod end with... After talking to Jack, he recommended using grade 8 hardware, and making sure the shank of the bolt was completely through the mount, with no threads inside the mount. I understand why, but this seems a little... overkill. Not what jack recommended, but what I have after mounting this up. I mean, I had to go 3" long for the shank go through the 1.25" flange. .... What do you guys do in this situation? I'm not gonna cut these things down, just too much work for too little payback. Have you found other hardware that isn't so.. crazy? Or do you just deal with the extra length and leave it? --- Also, pretend there are spacers within the mount - I just didn't have them at work. Also, ignore the cheap thing random washer.. I didn't want to break open another super expensive bag of grade 8 washers just to hit the thread section for a mock up, if you guys end up recommending something else. We are talking a full 1" of thread beyond the end of the nut.

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-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...

Measure the bolt and hole diameter with digital calipers, how much difference is there? Unless the hole was reamed and the bolts are to AN specs, there'll be some slop. The answer is to use AN bolts, then you can get them in 1/16" length increments - and ream the bracket holes to size.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

I'll be honest, I thought AN8 was grade 8, Didn't even realize they were specific aircraft bolts. Looks like i'll continue shopping around.

I guess I'm looking for an AN8-20, "-20 Nom length:2-3/32 Grip length (shank):1-5/16" -- Since, I need 1.25" of shank length, this would give me 1.31 shank length, and with a washer, that would be good to go. I wonder if I can find these things locally to mock one up before ordering 16+ online.

Thanks for making me think a little bit more, haha.

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-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...

Well, I called a local aerospace company who apparently supplies all the hardware for every racing circuit in the world.. nascar, alms, indy, f1... NICE. Resources! Guy was more excited about my Locost than I am! I'll be headed up there in the next few days to get his take on what I should be using for hardware. He suggested against AN bolts, as they are 'loose tolerance' bolt, and should probably be going with a NAS1308-21 type of bolt. I have no idea. We'll see how much he wrings out of my wallet. I'll keep you guys updated on exactly what I end up picking up.

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-Brad
Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...

Which is why reaming holes for them gets you very little - they are the general purpose hardware of aviation (not necessarily a bad thing but its worth recognizing what they are).

Also keep in mind that the hole in the rod-end will also be pretty loose so getting a tighter tolerance bolt will get you little to nothing.

I'd drill the holes, use AN bolts, and call it a day. I've yet to see a build with properly sized hardware anyways. The stuff on a standard build is so overbuilt that you would have to hit a wall to overload it. By that point your clearance fit holes will be attached to mangled tubes.

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-Andrew
Build Log
Youtube

Hey Brad-
Glad you're back at it! On the "AN Bolts" subject, after you check with the local guy, you can compare with Pegasus Racing (Nope, I ain't on their payroll!) and see if you like them better. They have AN bolts and stuff, with the bolts being available in various "Grip Lengths". (i.e. "shank length")
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=AN8

Good luck with it!

JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

imho
your weak spot is the thin "bolt to bracket" contact area (can elongate quickly if the bolt is ever loose)

on my sandrails i liked to mill the bracket holes to 3/4" and use 3/4 x .125 DOM tubing spacers welded in place
i used a slightly oversized welding spacer in place of the rodend for a not too tight fit
this gives the 1/2" bolt a much larger contact area to the bracket and lessens the danger of shearing or elongating

could not find a pic of my stuff... but found a similar one at Jegs;


note ; one side is a slider (i would not recommend that) ... i liked to weld each spacer in place ... and with more then just a little spot

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- Stephan -

This was a sketch I did a while back. Shows the above suggestion. Really the only way one should go about making a pickup point.

excellent

yes, your right that welding each sleeve is probably overkill (without the severe pounding of off-road)
i see the bonus of the extra adjustability with 3 spacers ... good idea (that i`m going to steal for my project )

btw
if you turn the bolt upsidedown (thread part in the longer of the two sleeves) you have one other advantage;
you can use a shorter bolt (the bolt shoulder only needs to penetrate partially into the sleeve)
so most of the time you can get away without trimming the threads (and ending up with uncoated metal)

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- Stephan -

Brad
I'm glad to see you're back at it.
I was beginning to worry you'd climbed back on the waggon.

If you're in the neighborhood you should check out Ciotti racing in Dover. Dave seems to have all sorts of good & otherwise usefull stuff.

Cheers
P.

I am using those. They come in a couple of widths, and both are useful for me. Given the price, and the time that is saved, I don't think you can go wrong.

AT least I hope one cannot go wrong since I'm using about a dozen of these...

JEGS numbers:

555-64850 -- wide JEGS Coil-Over Shock Mounting Brackets, 6.99 ea

555-64851 -- narrow JEGS Coil-Over Shock Mounting Brackets, $6.99 ea

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

Well dang, I can't find my Carroll Smith fasteners book--if somebody else has it handy, perhaps you can quote from it? It's state of the racing art of a quarter century ago, which I think is sufficient for Locost needs.

Personally, I'm a fan of AN8 bolts for Locost suspension mounts, and I've never aimed for closer tolerances there than AN8 offer in laser cut 1/2" holes through 1/8" mild steel. AN bolts are indeed the general purpose hardware aviation, but "general purpose aviation" here denotes a pretty trustworthy standard, and beats the heck out of "general purpose lawn furniture" hardware or even "general purpose car" hardware. I know Boeing buys An hardware by the ton, and while I'm not hip to modern warcraft, I know there are a heck of a lot of AN bolts on an F-15...the AN stands for Army-Navy, after all, so don't let their general-purposeness turn you off.

Stephan (RoosterBooster) and Greg (gregV) and Tim (geek49203), that (or those) is/are fine way(s) to mount a rod end in a bracket, but as long as you keep the bolt threads out of contact with the bracket (a washer is required on the threaded end of the bolt) and tighten the nut on the bolt properly (which calls for appropriate spacers), my experience is that 1/8" thick brackets are up to the job on Locosts. There are many things which can be improved on a Locost, if one has the time and the money, but I don't think I'd start with the suspension brackets.

Mind you, me and my Locost have limited experience with the severe pounding of off-road. Frankly, I wish it was more limited than it is, and I hope to gain no more of it, but I do have 100k+ miles on my ride and it's hanging in there.

[Edit: I have no financial interest in NO, WAIT, I CANNOT TELL A LIE! I do have a financial interest in the bracket biz and have sold about a gajillion unsleeved brackets and spacers already, and will sell a gajillion more unless somebody stops me! Bwaa-ha-ha-haaa.]

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Jack I hope your laugh is accompanied by this?

lol on the edit

yes, its the old give and take; i always used basic grade 8 bolts (mainly for ease of availability in a bind) , but did the sleeves on double shear ...

the sleeves saved me at least once when i forgot to tighten a C/O bolt after a shock rebuild ...
i duned (and jumped ) the car the whole weekend with the finger tight bolt rattling ,
but thanks to the wide welded sleeves there was no damage to the bracket (no sign of elongation) ...
so all it needed was re-tightening the bolt to the correct torque

btw
12 point F911 hardware would be another excellent bolt for high stress situations (~20% stronger then gr8)
or if you feel like reducing some weight (and burning some cash ) may look into titanium bolts

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- Stephan -