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PostPosted: February 11, 2012, 7:32 pm 
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Good to know rowdy, thanks!

So last night I started building the mock cockpits for the BrokeAssSeven out of the wood I bought. I cut out the shape of the compartment from the OSB, and mounted the strapping directly to that, trying to follow the build plans as best I could with what I had. I had to fudge a couple things (the transmission tunnel for one), but all in all, I got at least where I'm sitting and the pedal area pretty well done and good. This compartment was for the 'book frame'. After all was said and done... I fit in the book frame fine. The pedal compartment was very small, but I'll make it work. Like I said, I had to fudge the location of the tranny tunnel, but I think I was close-ish. Close enough to say that using the book frame will probably be totally fine for my needs, as long as I use a donor that's NOT the SVX. Which is fine... I just need to find one. I'm not even going to bother building the second cockpit... I fit into the book chassis, and it's already drawn on the table, so no reason to waste time/materials.

Seat width: 17" ; Outside wall height = 13" ; Front Tranny tunnel width = 12" ; Rear Tranny tunnel width = 6" ; Tranny tunnel height = 8.25".

So onto the pics...

Image

Image

I ended up removing the front tranny tunnel angled pieces.. I read the plans wrong, extended them back from C to B2 and reattached. Also -- It's 3D!!! Hahahaha
Image

Image

Image

Image

And the obligatory self portrait pretending to drive... I had a 'cockpit', I had to sit in it. I'm thinking I might throw some heavy duty castors on this pig, tow rope hook, and have some hick fun! Maybe if we get any snow, and I can skin it up, hook it up to a snowmobile and really go ripping!
Image

More pictures and description on www.BrokeAssSeven.com . I might add a page just for this little project, like I did for the build table... not sure.

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PostPosted: February 11, 2012, 7:42 pm 
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BrokeAssSeven wrote:
Maybe if we get any snow, and I can skin it up, hook it up to a snowmobile and really go ripping!
:rofl: WHEEEEHAAWWWWW!!!!!

Don't forget that the passenger doesn't need as much foot room as the driver. .. If you shift everything over an inch or so the driver gets a bigger footwell. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: February 12, 2012, 12:35 am 
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I ended up removing the front tranny tunnel angled pieces.. I read the plans wrong, extended them back from C to B2 and reattached. Also -- It's 3D!!! Hahahaha


Time and effort paid for right there. It has to be less fun doing that with steel, not even counting you know you're already sawing pieces of your new car up almost right away. I wouldn't take this apart until you have a few pieces like transmission and differential on the table too. Then you'll be able to plan the transmission/driveshaft tunnel by the tranny and the rear bulkhead. You want these things to all connect up well and sometimes that doesn't seem to happen...

Your off to a good start. :cheers:

I have a friend up in Manchester I should visit one of these days. I could swing by and cheer you on if you like someday...
:cheers:

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PostPosted: February 12, 2012, 1:06 am 
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Now put someone in the passenger seat and simulate wild sawing of the wheel and the G forces of a right and left turn. See if there's room to COMFORTABLY move the wheel and control the car. That's the problem areas, not when you're just sitting still.

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PostPosted: February 12, 2012, 2:08 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
Quote:
I ended up removing the front tranny tunnel angled pieces.. I read the plans wrong, extended them back from C to B2 and reattached. Also -- It's 3D!!! Hahahaha


Time and effort paid for right there. It has to be less fun doing that with steel, not even counting you know you're already sawing pieces of your new car up almost right away. I wouldn't take this apart until you have a few pieces like transmission and differential on the table too. Then you'll be able to plan the transmission/driveshaft tunnel by the tranny and the rear bulkhead. You want these things to all connect up well and sometimes that doesn't seem to happen...

Your off to a good start. :cheers:

I have a friend up in Manchester I should visit one of these days. I could swing by and cheer you on if you like someday...
:cheers:


Very true. Though, I'm going to be so paranoid when actually working with the steel, that I'm likely not to make a dumb mistake like this (the wrong attach point for tranny tunnel members). Who knows, at least now I'll be aware moreso of it. I'm hoping to have a lot of the frame tacked together by wednesday night. Taking the whole day to just go crazy on it. At what point do you guys go ahead and make the final welds on the frame? Before building the rear bulkhead section, since it gets added on later anyway? Or after it's all in place.. and does that include the tranny tunnel, or can the frame be final welded before that point?

Also, the tack welds should be strong enough to pull the frame off the table to do final welding, right? I mean i'll be doing as much on the table as I can, but at some point it's going to have to be removed from the table to weld the bottom area, as well as get to the hard-to-reach areas. I would just hate to tack it together, pick it up from the 'jig', and have it go all wendy bendy on me. I plan on tacking at all 4 corners of each tube, to minimize warping.

For my table jig.. I'm thinking just small pieces of wood nailed/screwed to the table, on the outsides of the tubes. You know, one on each side.. and on each end, so 4 peices per tube to keep it from moving/bending laterally. I think I'm going to cut all the tubes for the lower frame assembly prior to tacking anything in place. Or should I cut, tack, cut, tack, etc.?

Oh, and yea, feel free to come on by! I see no reason not to take in as much knowledge as I can from fellow local locosters. You've done it, I haven't. Where in Mass are you located?

carguy123 wrote:
Now put someone in the passenger seat and simulate wild sawing of the wheel and the G forces of a right and left turn. See if there's room to COMFORTABLY move the wheel and control the car. That's the problem areas, not when you're just sitting still.


My wife and I sat in it at the same time. Plenty of room, even she thought so! I won't be doing much 'wild sawing' of the wheel as I won't be tracking it or pulling of pit maneuvers anytime soon! Haha! The G forces will be fine.. planning on having at least 4 point harnesses with bolstered racing-type seats (even if i have to cut them down to fit in this damn thing). I once owned a Toyota MR2 Turbo w/ 4 points... another pretty small car, with a small interior (reminds me a lot of the locost actually... the fuel tank was between the passengers, so real high tunnel through the middle of the car. Ah, I miss it!), and fit in that thing perfectly fine also!

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PostPosted: February 12, 2012, 5:09 pm 
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The MR2 is a GIANT by comparison.

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PostPosted: February 12, 2012, 11:15 pm 
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BrokeAssSeven wrote:
At what point do you guys go ahead and make the final welds on the frame? Before building the rear bulkhead section, since it gets added on later anyway? Or after it's all in place.. and does that include the tranny tunnel, or can the frame be final welded before that point?

Also, the tack welds should be strong enough to pull the frame off the table to do final welding, right? I mean i'll be doing as much on the table as I can, but at some point it's going to have to be removed from the table to weld the bottom area, as well as get to the hard-to-reach areas. I would just hate to tack it together, pick it up from the 'jig', and have it go all wendy bendy on me. I plan on tacking at all 4 corners of each tube, to minimize warping.



I've found it best to wait to weld until all of the tubes are placed. The triangulation that makes a frame stiff also keeps it from warping when you weld. The only places I'll weld prior to this are the seams that will be covered by another tube (like where a diagonal intersects two other tubes). You also want to weld evenly (do the same seam on each side of the chassis and alternate where the heat is placed).

The same holds true for the tack welds. I just wouldn't start placing any significant weight on the frame until you have some welding done (say at least two sides of each tube).

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PostPosted: February 13, 2012, 1:39 am 
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Don't rush in too quickly. Do some practice welding unless you have plenty of experience with this size tubing. I practiced by making tees, welding just one edge and then breaking it with my hands. Then you can take a little bit off that piece and weld it again.

I would also wait before you do the tunnel until you have the motor, tranny and diff in hand. Maybe I'm over cautious...

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PostPosted: February 13, 2012, 9:44 am 
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a.moore wrote:
BrokeAssSeven wrote:
At what point do you guys go ahead and make the final welds on the frame? Before building the rear bulkhead section, since it gets added on later anyway? Or after it's all in place.. and does that include the tranny tunnel, or can the frame be final welded before that point?

Also, the tack welds should be strong enough to pull the frame off the table to do final welding, right? I mean i'll be doing as much on the table as I can, but at some point it's going to have to be removed from the table to weld the bottom area, as well as get to the hard-to-reach areas. I would just hate to tack it together, pick it up from the 'jig', and have it go all wendy bendy on me. I plan on tacking at all 4 corners of each tube, to minimize warping.



I've found it best to wait to weld until all of the tubes are placed. The triangulation that makes a frame stiff also keeps it from warping when you weld. The only places I'll weld prior to this are the seams that will be covered by another tube (like where a diagonal intersects two other tubes). You also want to weld evenly (do the same seam on each side of the chassis and alternate where the heat is placed).

The same holds true for the tack welds. I just wouldn't start placing any significant weight on the frame until you have some welding done (say at least two sides of each tube).


Alright that sounds good. Ill tack 2 opposite sides of each tube (to keep them straight, and minimize the cooling pulling effect, and then tack the same member on the opposite side of the frame. I'll tack every tube (including everything behind the passenger compartment) before final welding anything.

horizenjob wrote:
Don't rush in too quickly. Do some practice welding unless you have plenty of experience with this size tubing. I practiced by making tees, welding just one edge and then breaking it with my hands. Then you can take a little bit off that piece and weld it again.

I would also wait before you do the tunnel until you have the motor, tranny and diff in hand. Maybe I'm over cautious...


I've been practicing a lot on my 3/4x3/4 16g.. i bought way too much of it (which is good for practice, i guess!). Seems to be going well. I upped my speed and heat to 50 speed, 4 heat, getting good penetration. Even had a friend of mine who's a master welder take a look at them, and he was pretty impressed, so that brought my confidence up! I'll continue practicing final welding throughout this process (since i'll be tacking for some time!), just to make sure I get a great handling for it.

I am planning on waiting to do the tunnel until I've got my donor. I only mocked up a tunnel to try to get a feel for size. I checked out the Vodou VR5 frame (which uses an MX5 as a donor), and I was actually only off .05" in the front of hte tunnel, and 1/4" at the back, between the seats. Not bad for guessing!! But, I will definitely have MY donor to measure and be sure of correct size/placement prior to building the tunnel. I'm thinking I can final weld the frame itself before I have to deal with the tunnel though, no?

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Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

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PostPosted: February 13, 2012, 5:20 pm 
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Keep buying wood (unless there's termites where you live) ! :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust_%28car%29

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PostPosted: February 14, 2012, 9:48 am 
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olrowdy_01 wrote:
Keep buying wood (unless there's termites where you live) ! :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust_%28car%29


HAHAHA. Nice, I've already got one half done!

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PostPosted: February 14, 2012, 2:22 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
Don't rush in too quickly.
[snip]
I would also wait before you do the tunnel until you have the motor, tranny and diff in hand. Maybe I'm over cautious...
My thoughts too. The more you plan before cutting/welding the less trouble you'll have later. I have many cardboard templates that I made as I went along as remembrances of all the time I spent planing/drawing etc.

My dashboard instrument panel was a fully dimensioned Acad drawing before I even cut a piece of cardboard.

What you've done so far looks very good.

You can gain 1" of foot room on the right side of the gas pedal if you can mount the vertical wall of the tunnel in that area on the inside of the tunnel tubes. I picked up 3" of room that way by using a 2" deep aluminum cooking pan mounted on the inside of the tubes. With a motorcycle engine there is nothing in that area of the tunnel except for the drive shaft.

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PostPosted: February 14, 2012, 4:58 pm 
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In regards to fabricating ........ Its only steel and can be fixed and it sound like ya got enough of it.

In regards to welding square stock, I find it helps to tack @ the corners and then when you go to finish weld run a series of cursive e's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4RrDeUKcH4

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PostPosted: February 15, 2012, 8:20 am 
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olrowdy_01 wrote:
horizenjob wrote:
Don't rush in too quickly.
[snip]
I would also wait before you do the tunnel until you have the motor, tranny and diff in hand. Maybe I'm over cautious...
My thoughts too. The more you plan before cutting/welding the less trouble you'll have later. I have many cardboard templates that I made as I went along as remembrances of all the time I spent planing/drawing etc.

My dashboard instrument panel was a fully dimensioned Acad drawing before I even cut a piece of cardboard.

What you've done so far looks very good.

You can gain 1" of foot room on the right side of the gas pedal if you can mount the vertical wall of the tunnel in that area on the inside of the tunnel tubes. I picked up 3" of room that way by using a 2" deep aluminum cooking pan mounted on the inside of the tubes. With a motorcycle engine there is nothing in that area of the tunnel except for the drive shaft.


Thanks for the tips! -- I do plan on cadding out the dash and what not before banging it out. Fortunately, the frame is done, so I don't have to do too much 3D relearning! (or unfortunately... I really want to get back into it!.. too many years of 2D cad is getting REALLY boring). Good thinking on putting the vertical wall on the inside of the tunnel.. won't lose really any space on the inside, but gain on the outside. Perfect!

HUFFSTER wrote:
In regards to fabricating ........ Its only steel and can be fixed and it sound like ya got enough of it.

In regards to welding square stock, I find it helps to tack @ the corners and then when you go to finish weld run a series of cursive e's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4RrDeUKcH4


Thanks! I think i've got the technique pretty down. I've always used the 'cursive e' way of doing it.. and have actually seen that video. I've been watching quite a few on vertical, upside down, push/pull, this/that/the other thing... But you're right.. it's just steel, and can be fixed. It's not like i'm permanently mounting diamonds that I can never reclaim. Don't want to waste time or material, but if I do... it's really not that big of a deal.

------

Speaking of changing things up... after much deliberation (and 2 cut tubes), I've decided to just go ahead and build the +442E. That way, I definitely have enough room for me, the wife, seats, and any donor I can find. I don't need to limit myself to only a few possible donors.. I don't need to worry about building this thing and not being able to fit at the end unless I'm on a diet.. It just makes sense. It's not THAT much bigger than a book frame, and I actually like the wider look of the +442E nose, sort of caterhamish, rather than original 7ish. So I took the day off today.. will be heading into the garage pretty quick to rewire my receptacles (currently a super sketchy loose as balls duplex hanging in a quad box, with a 6 receptacle box plugged into it.. with 1 extension cord that i need to keep unplugging and plugging in the bandsaw, wire wheel, grinder, and welder. It's getting ridiculous.. and in the tight space, super inconvenient. Just going to rerun the feed into the garage, install a couple new receptacles in more convenient areas, and do it properly. Then... cutting and welding! There will be a new build log/website post later on today / tomorrow morning about everything!

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PostPosted: February 15, 2012, 3:06 pm 
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Just a quick update... did a cut through on a couple beads I ran the other day. The upper right one is the most recent.. sped the wire up a little bit, turned the heat up. I'll be honest, I was using the pull method, and after watching tons of 'how to mig weld' videos on youtube, apparently the 'push' method is much better.. gets better penetration, etc. So, using the same settings, and pushing, it was blowing through like crazy.. so I turned the heat down, slowed the wire speed slightly and bam, back in action. Anyway, not to toot my own horn, but talk about perfect penetration (top right).

Image

And as the Seven stands right now...

Image

Perfectly flat, tacked up, +442E, from outside corner to outside corner going both ways is EXACTLY 100 9/16". I can't believe how perfectly square it is. I mean, I expected it to be square.. but not to the 1/16. After lunch I'll be going down to make it 3D!

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