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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:39 pm 
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There's been some discussion on this before, let's see what falls out when I tip my head to one side. ......

Bills Auto Fabrication: Bellhousings to bolt Toyota W and G series transmissions to a Mitsubishi DOHC 4G63 and a Subaru flat four. (I think he's got them finished. ..)
http://www.billsautofab.com/default.asp

There, that ought to get you started. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:20 pm 
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I wouldn't do it now. I have seen very few builds using non-OEM engine/transmission combinations completed. You have enough work - why make more?

I'd sell the SVX to an enthusiast or part it out and keep the powertrain for a future winter retrofit project.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:07 pm 
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MIddie

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:11 pm 
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I'm used to working with inches to three (decimal) places. i.e. 4.9" means someone left off the other two zeros (4.900"). If 4.9 bothers you just use 4.906" instead of 4.90625" and you'll be close enough. :mrgreen:

I remember when the USA converted to metric and someone said "All the great nations of the world have converted to metric except the USA." and the other guy said "Yeah, and we didn't get to BE great by using metric either."

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:28 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
Quote:
just round up/down to the nearest 1/16th and make note of it. Chances are good I'll have bigger gaps from poor cutting/filing anyway, and you're right.. most manufacturers have tolerances of a couple thousand anyway.
Pretty much, that is what I can do in my head.
Just remember, "Measure with a micrometer, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe!" Or to be modern, cut with a hand held cut off grinder.
Attachment:
A little modification was done.jpg
A little modification was done.jpg [ 49.82 KiB | Viewed 930 times ]

Yep, that or'ta be close enough.

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http://dmr-architect.com/~locouki/


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:36 pm 
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We are Slotus!
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Quote:
Just remember, "Measure with a micrometer, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe!" Or to be modern, cut with a hand held cut off grinder.


I done told him that one, Rowdy! But it's a great saying, so it bears repeating... At Team Slotus, we've modified it to "mark with a Sharpie" except we never can find the damned Sharpies!
Attachment:
3 30 11 Woogity Tube.jpg
3 30 11 Woogity Tube.jpg [ 71.03 KiB | Viewed 928 times ]
WHERE IS THE @#$%&* SHARPIE!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:56 am 
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Deleted post in favor of the one below this, which is more detailed, and says the same thing.

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This build is already locosting a fortune...


Last edited by BrokeAssSeven on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:23 am 
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Well, last night I finally got around to drawing out the lower frame on my build table. The good news is that using my measurement method, I was only about 1/16" off at the very end, which I corrected pretty easily. Of course, this is just a drawing, and not cut steel tubes which will be much harder to erase, but here's hoping!

For the record, I'll be using the entire SVX driveline, and not swapping in some random transmission. The furthest I'd be going would be to change it from automatic to 5 speed. It's AWD, so RWD conversion is easy enough.

Scary.. what the hell do you guys use for seats in a book frame? I've only got 20" between centerline and inside of the outermost frame member. After tranny tunnel, i'll have like 16-18", and I haven't found a seat that would fit that anywhere. I'm thinking about starting over with a +442 or +442E if I end up using the subaru motor. That will at least give me an extra 2" from centerline for seats/my fat ass.... My wife walked in while I was drawing it and she's like 'Uhhh.. we're supposed to fit into that?!!?? HOW?'... so yea, I need to think about it. Or am I just way off, and it's actually just really deceivingly small when it's on the build table? Either way, I think i'd be better off with a +442 no matter what. I need to measure my current car from back of seat to pedal box to see how much room I typically need and see what's going on. I just know starting over where I'm at now is WAY less of a hassle than rebuilding the entire frame later on. Plus, I overbought steel in case (read: when) i screw up, and bought it in 24' lengths cut to 12' rather than 20' cut to 10' like the cut list suggests for the book frame. So, in other words, I should have plenty of steel to do a +442E if I wanted to.

I'm just starting to get nervous I'm going to finish this thing and not be able to fit. That would be embarrasing. I'd have to give the car to my little brother. What do you guys think? I'm 6'0" about 210lbs. Mostly front fat, not side fat. HAHA. Also, I like long walks on the beach, moonlit dinners....

These pics are hard to look at... with it being pencil and all...

Drivers side looking forward
Image

Front
Image

Passenger Compartment
Image

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Build Log: http://www.BrokeAssSeven.com -- http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13293

This build is already locosting a fortune...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:21 am 
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I like the fact you are thinking so far ahead. A typical book will have about 17 inches for a seat, less if you have to offset the tunnel. There are few choices for purchasing a ready-to-go seat. If you are racing, then by all means look into a Kirky seat. If you are planning on a cruiser and want to keep a "book" chassis, then you will probably have to DIY. The original Seven used 2 seat squabs and a bench-style backrest. I liked the simplicity of this but found that this would not give me the whiplash protection I wanted. I have been rear ended too many times for me to have no protection. So I rolled-my-own. I modified the back seats of a GM minivan. Some of my details can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4145&start=165

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:32 pm 
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BrokeAssSeven wrote:
Scary.. what the hell do you guys use for seats in a book frame? I've only got 20" between centerline and inside of the outermost frame member. After tranny tunnel, i'll have like 16-18", and I haven't found a seat that would fit that anywhere.

Wow you've got all kinds of room! The original Lotus 7 is 4" narrower than a book Locost. At the same time it had a smaller tunnel and used a bench seat. I'm rather thin and I had to bounce up and down to get to the bottom of one with bucket seats. You didn't get into that car, it was more like putting it on!

My BEC has an offset-oversized tunnel which gets wider in the passengers seat area. I have ~0.7487922 cubit (to avoid all this mm error problems) for the driver and has 13.500" width for the passengers seat between the side and expanding tunnel tubes. A Kirky seat fit right into the drivers side OK. For the passenger side I cut the other Kirky seat vertically down one of the seams near where the bolsters are, overlapped the two pieces until the seat fit the chassis and welded it back together. I then cut away the bolsters on either side to pick up 1" on either side. But if anyone is over 14" wide at the butt (most people) they may get IN the car but getting OUT is going to be a problem.

I have a little more detail on the seat cutting and the drivers side adjuster I used here, http://dmr-architect.com/%7Elocouki/misc-hints.html


I'm just starting to get nervous I'm going to finish this thing and not be able to fit. That would be embarrasing. I'd have to give the car to my little brother. What do you guys think? I'm 6'0" about 210lbs. Mostly front fat, not side fat. HAHA.
What do I think? .................. Don't try to sit in my passengers seat! :wink:

One thing I'd like to warn you about, design your front suspension geometry before you finalize the front of the car around the A-arm mounting points. If you use the exact same uprights etc as the design you are copying then you are OK. But I would make sure that design is correct before cutting & welding the front end. If you change anything major in the suspension design, make sure the geometry of the your-on-your-own design is correct.

The original Champion book had some tube length errors and the front A-arm mounting points caused too little caster angle. Somewhere on the forum is posted the corrected lengths. I would guess that McSorley corrected that in his drawings but I haven't checked. Anyone know about that?

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Completed building GSXR1000 CMC7, "Locouki"
http://dmr-architect.com/~locouki/


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:53 pm 
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B-A-S, build up a couple of faux cockpit walls using a few boxes, a couple of pieces of plywood or whatever you can find? They only need to be about 10 inches tall. Adjust the walls to 17" (or ?) and see how you fit. There is nothing like trying it on for size first.

For larger people, the outside wall may become a problem. I had to fill in between the frame members on my 16" passenger side for a friend (6 ft and 200++ lbs) to avoid the point-pressure of the frame on his thigh. I used 1" insulating foam with wrapped vinyl. Funny that narrowing the space helped him tremendously.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:32 pm 
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You need to sit in a few cars before you decide.

I'm 5'11" and weigh just under 200 lbs and while I can squeeze into a book frame, I'm not comfortable and don't even consider putting a passenger in there with me and expect me to go fast. My elbows will give them a beating.

So while I could do it I wouldn't do it because it would destroy the enjoyment of the car for me. In my case I know that my wife and kids will be in the car almost everytime I'm in it (one at a time of course) and not a one of them would consider staying at home if I'm autocrossing or doing a HPDE. They all want to ride.

Determine your needs and then find a few to sit in - FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE OR SO!! Take a semi long drive. Long enough to see where the rough spots develop.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:07 pm 
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I hate to see this misquoted:
"Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe."

It's "Measure with a yardstick, mark with chalk, cut with a torch, and tune with an axe." Guy I knew racing sprint cars had this lettered on his car, complete with pictographs, after Penske ran him off for doing exactly that!

Best thing my locost has bought me is the metric tape! Regardless of the system, the measurent itself isn't all that important. What is, is the precise duplication of parts side to side. The best way I've found to produce that is to rough cut, then sand to match, using a disc sander and miter guage. Priceless for the bi-compound mitered diagonals.

I put my motor in before ever seeing a locost in person. Wasn't included in the plans. So I put the motor/bellhousing joint on the firewall, just like Detroit! That's how I came to have the only mid-engined front-motored 7 I've seen. Take every oportunity to get hands on with one before you finish welding!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:57 pm 
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If you're worried about fitting, I'd suggest spending a couple dollars on cheap plywood and some 1x1 or similar and mock up the whole passenger area right down to the foot boxes and tunnel. When my planned build was more sports racer than locost, I used this technique to start mocking up the tub. What I learned was invaluable; I was able to make about 6 revisions without ever wasting steel. The exercise was well worth the cost of the wood and time involved.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:28 pm 
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A sheet or two of thin plywood ( 1/4-3/8 ) and a jigsaw will let you mock up something to sit in. Sounds like a good idea. I think the bench seat is a practical and attractive choice for these especially if your not spending a lot of time at the track. You can make a head rest and attach to a roll bar cross brace.

Quote:
It's AWD, so RWD conversion is easy enough.


Except probably no one has ever done this. I remember seeing the fellow who makes the AWD -> FWD adapters being asked about this and saying "I would have to think about that." I certainly don't know.

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