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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: April 4, 2012, 2:23 pm 
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Joined: May 10, 2010, 12:46 pm
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Haha, love the commentary on the lottery.

The shop still has the program. I asked him to quote a 5 piece run. It will still be pretty pricey

JackMcCornack wrote:
How does that work? I'm greatly interested in a taller Miata diff..


Jack, i got my info from here
http://www.solomiata.com/Drivetrain.html

I think Mazda makes different number teeth ring and pinion gear sets that are interchangeable. I think the most common (of the taller ratios) at this point is a 3.909 from the tenth anniversary edition miata.


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PostPosted: April 10, 2012, 6:01 pm 
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I heard back from the shop. Even at 5 pieces it's $4300 per copy.


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PostPosted: April 11, 2012, 2:23 pm 
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Joined: September 26, 2009, 8:25 pm
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Location: Park Hills, KY
Ouch...


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PostPosted: April 11, 2012, 3:30 pm 
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Ouch is right. My Kawasaki is safe for the time being.

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PostPosted: April 11, 2012, 4:15 pm 
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krepus wrote:
Ouch...


Yeah. For what it's all going to be worth there could be a V8 in my miata. I always start second guessing this adventure - until I hear the bike motor run again - and then I remember why I'm doing it.

I spent the morning setting up the oiling for the bearings in the housing. I stole oil from an oil pipe that used to lubricate the bike's transmission. Luckily, the tubing was 3/16" OD and an appropriate ID which is AN3 size. So I bought a bunch of tubing and fittings and rigged something up.

On the engine, just below the oil pump drive gear, you can see a short tube with a female AN fitting. The plan is to use the flexible brake line to extend into the crankcase, make a loop, and then come back out with the opposite end aiming at the housing.
Image

Since the transmission is gone, there is nothing in the crankcase which is what allows the service loop. The plan will be to hook up the oil line to the housing before slipping it onto the pins. The flexible line gives me . . . flexibility . . . in that whole procedure.
Image

Here's the end in the housing that mates up to the engine.
Image

The hard line runs under the gear and the loops up to shoot oil into the outer bearing. There are two bearings in there though and I'm counting on some sloshing to get oil on the inner one.
Image

Finally, here we are mating the housing up to the engine.
Image

That's the last bit of fitting for the adapter I had to do. Next step is to get the engine running again this time mated up to the miata trans! First though, I'm going on vacation for a week and a half, then, the timing belt broke on the miata :BH: - so that needs fixing. Luckily it's a non-interference engine. Seven progress is going to be slow for a little bit.


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PostPosted: April 16, 2012, 2:49 pm 
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Joined: February 17, 2010, 1:48 pm
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Location: Seattle, Wa
Nice work so far...love seeing something so different!

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PostPosted: June 4, 2012, 11:36 pm 
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Joined: April 26, 2010, 8:26 pm
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Location: murrieta, ca
I'm looking forward to watching your build progress... I'm hoping to start a 7 build, but I don't see it being feasible until next year *sigh*

The engineer in my wonders if you could have gotten an oil port into that adapter for the outside bearing... But it looks like the pockets are too deep to get a good angle on it. Is it something you considered?

Ben


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PostPosted: June 5, 2012, 9:46 pm 
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Hey Ben,

Yeah, oil ports through the housing would definitely been the way to go. Even though the pockets are deep I think passages could be drilled from the outside and then plugged. I did consider them, but there were a lot of movings parts with the oiling: I wasn't 100% sure from where I could steal oil from before breaking the motor down, I wasn't sure of the flow rate I was going to get or the orifice size I needed. If I ever iterate the design they will surely be included next time.


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PostPosted: June 6, 2012, 4:50 pm 
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Hey GoBeserk,

Sounds like a very interesting project. Maybe a bit spendy, but you know the old saying: Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick 2!

Out of curiousity, what is your general location. You've mentioned a couple of spots in MD and got me wondering.....

JustDreamin (in Severna Park)


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PostPosted: June 8, 2012, 4:18 pm 
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JustDreamin wrote:
Hey GoBeserk,

Sounds like a very interesting project. Maybe a bit spendy, but you know the old saying: Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick 2!

Out of curiousity, what is your general location. You've mentioned a couple of spots in MD and got me wondering.....

JustDreamin (in Severna Park)


I'm in Pasadena, so just a stone's throw from you. Yes, my build is a bit spendy. I decided to trade money for time and went with a kit. And then I decided I needed a unique powetrain :) So it's Good and Fast for me. I would argue, however, that, excluding the cost of their own labor, some people here manage to do Good, Fast and Cheap.

Your profile says you're not building anything right now. What are your plans? Do you own a Seven already?


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PostPosted: June 8, 2012, 5:31 pm 
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Location: murrieta, ca
GoBerserk wrote:
Hey Ben,

Yeah, oil ports through the housing would definitely been the way to go. Even though the pockets are deep I think passages could be drilled from the outside and then plugged. I did consider them, but there were a lot of movings parts with the oiling: I wasn't 100% sure from where I could steal oil from before breaking the motor down, I wasn't sure of the flow rate I was going to get or the orifice size I needed. If I ever iterate the design they will surely be included next time.


That makes sense... I hadn't looked at your picasa album yet so I didn't realize it was already assembled to the motor! Its an awfully expensive part to iterate, so hopefully you won't need to! (or if you do hopefully its just a modification you can make to the existing one vs a complete new one...)

I forgot to mention in my last post, I want to do basically what you are doing WRT the frame/motorcycle engine/miata running gear... Was MNR easy to work with to get that combination? What was the lead time like on the MNR kit?


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PostPosted: June 10, 2012, 10:46 pm 
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henlybenderson wrote:
I forgot to mention in my last post, I want to do basically what you are doing WRT the frame/motorcycle engine/miata running gear... Was MNR easy to work with to get that combination? What was the lead time like on the MNR kit?


I'm going to have to get back to you on MNR. My kit is currently in customs in New York and may get down to Baltimore some time this week. MNR has been a mix of responsive and not, and I want to reserve final judgement until I see the kit. I asked for a custom frame and I'm nervous about it turning out right.

I assume you're talking about a motorcycle engine the traditional way (putting a driveshaft flange in place of the sprocket)? I'll have to point you the way of Paul's R1 Build. You'll have to check my math, but I'm not sure a miata rear-end is the best choice for a bike engine and it's stock transmission. I think the differential ratio is too short.

Let's take a 2012 R1 for example: redline 13,750 rpm, primary ratio, 1.512, 6th gear ratio 1.269
When used with a miata rear end with a ratio of 4.1, that puts the max wheel rpm at 13,750 / 1.512 / 1.269 / 4.1 = 1748 rpm.
Tirerack says a Toyo R1R 205/50R15 has 903 revs/mile. So . . .
1748 rev/min / 903 revs/mile * 60 min/hour = 116mph.

I would say 116mph is a little slow for winding out to redline in 6th gear. If you can find the taller miata ratio of 3.909 you would get to 122mph. I recall Paul's build using a non-miata differential for this reason. But you'll have to check with him.


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PostPosted: June 11, 2012, 8:40 am 
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GoBerserk wrote:
Want low aero drag (hard to do with a conventional 7 design).
Ooh, I beg to differ! If by "conventional 7 design" you mean the body, then yes, that's a tautology, but if by "conventional 7 design" you mean the chassis, you can make yourself quite a slick little car if you care to.


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PostPosted: June 11, 2012, 3:56 pm 
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JustDreamin wrote:
Needs to be V8 powered (simply for the auditory portion of the performance) but still want light weight. Want low aero drag (hard to do with a conventional 7 design). Thought about AWD (to have a chance at keeping it hooked up) but not sure I can make it work (too many things that try to occupy the same space).

Once your frame makes it in, I'd love to stop over, meet you, and see your project. I love seeing people's "works in progress".

JustDreamin


Have you considered a V8 Miata? Tough to beat for the money. I might have done that but I needed a bike engine for the same auditory reasons. You're welcome to come over any time. No update on the crate's progress today.


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PostPosted: June 12, 2012, 3:37 pm 
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GoBerserk wrote:
JustDreamin wrote:
Needs to be V8 powered (simply for the auditory portion of the performance) but still want light weight. Want low aero drag (hard to do with a conventional 7 design). Thought about AWD (to have a chance at keeping it hooked up) but not sure I can make it work (too many things that try to occupy the same space).

Once your frame makes it in, I'd love to stop over, meet you, and see your project. I love seeing people's "works in progress".

JustDreamin


Have you considered a V8 Miata? Tough to beat for the money. I might have done that but I needed a bike engine for the same auditory reasons. You're welcome to come over any time. No update on the crate's progress today.



Not sure what happened to my original post (quoted above), but it's different now....No worries...

Haven't thought about a V8 Miata, prior to your suggesting it. I'll have to do some digging. Wouldn't be my first engine swap. May be an avenue I should explore further...

I'd love to stop by sometime, & bench race or what have you. I'll shoot you a PM in couple weeks (about to leave on vaca for 10 days) and we can line something up. Maybe by then you'll have a big now-empty crate by your house.

JustDreamin


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