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PostPosted: June 23, 2015, 3:11 pm 
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Anyone have any sense of which fuel tank coating product works best for a new home made tank? KBS, PORS15 or Creem? Or something else?

Ten gallons I figure, 9x9x31. Building a 1" square tube cage to hold it in, and maybe give it a bit more protection. There is a 1" square tube at the back of the car, and you can see the 1" square tubes that hold that back bar in place. Tank is 18 gauge steel with 2 full baffle panels. Hopefully the thing would take a bit of an impact before totally rupturing the fuel tank.

oh yeah, obviously I've yet to add the inlet pipe.

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Gas tank mockup 1.jpg

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fuel tank mount 1.jpg

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fuel tank mount 2.jpg

Attachment:
fuel tank mount 3.jpg


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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 9:09 am 
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geek49203 wrote:
Hopefully the thing would take a bit of an impact before totally rupturing the fuel tank.


As long as you are thinking about rear impact, have you thought about filling the space behind the tank with expanding foam? The rear of my new car (which still has no name, how about Fred?) has a similar shape to yours. I'll have some empty space back there and was thinking about it. I haven't gotten to the point where I've looked into the products out there. When I was in college in the 70's I worked summers at a plastics shop. We used a product called Steppenfoam or something close to that. We referred to it as NPRG (New Plastic Rock Group). It was a two part that we mixed with an egg beater then poured into molds. It expanded, then hardened into a foam that was denser than Styrofoam or the stuff they sell now for sealing windows. Just a thought.

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 10:54 am 
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"Steppenfoam"? "NPRG"? That's Weird, but I like the way your mind works! :cheers:

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 12:12 pm 
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Run87k wrote:
As long as you are thinking about rear impact, have you thought about filling the space behind the tank with expanding foam?


As you can see from the Stalker accident thread (which displays the awesome brain power of this group, albeit we're still building a car instead of buying a perfectly good one that is already built) the foam thing has some issues.

If it is stiff enough to have impact resistance, would the foam press into the tank and rupture when it would be otherwise unmolested?

I recall from discussions during the days when NASCAR had several deaths. In that time, a Ford engineer told me that they'd driven a 'Cup car into a wall in their crash facility, and at 45 mph they'd killed the dummy. It was determined that there was scarcely enough room in a 'Cup car for enough foam to make a difference in the impact spike that the driver suffered. HOWEVER, those SAFER barriers DO have foam in 'em (between the track layer and the cement wall), so maybe there is something that could be used?

I'm trying for the NASCAR-style tubes around the tank. Obviously this is not a competition tank, but the steel is far thicker than the tank that used to hold that fuel pump (GM circa 1998).


Run87k wrote:
...which still has no name, how about Fred?) has a similar shape to yours.


You doing a locost Lalo too? If so, let's keep talking!

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 12:55 pm 
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I'm doing my own design which will look like a 1930's sports car. The back of the car does have a resemblance to the Lalo. This is the mockup.
Attachment:
IMG_0523.JPG

I've started a body buck but other things got in the way
Attachment:
IMG_0589.JPG

I'm not in a hurry to finish, it took 5 1/2 years to get my locost on the road. I'll get back to it in the fall.

NASCAR does use foam in the doors. It gives the track workers something to pick up after crashes.


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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 1:17 pm 
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Run87k wrote:
I'm doing my own design which will look like a 1930's sports car. The back of the car does have a resemblance to the Lalo. This is the mockup. I've started a body buck but other things got in the way.
I'm not in a hurry to finish, it took 5 1/2 years to get my locost on the road. I'll get back to it in the fall.


Can you teach me how to work the 'glass? As in, invite me down and I'll bring a set of clothes that I can later throw in the trash as well as a box of gloves and let me see how to work it? 'Cause I need to join some Lalo bits...

Run87k wrote:
NASCAR does use foam in the doors. It gives the track workers something to pick up after crashes.


Reminds me of the early attempt at "safe walls" when they used 'foam. Hell, the '87 Cheever IROC crash at Indy, where they must still be finding bits of that wall?

And I think they have substantial bits on both sides of that foam, certainly (I hope?) between the driver and the foam?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N6WeCbrBJk

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 1:38 pm 
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Tim you need to get some practice. Almost anything will do, but don't start on your body work because you are likely to be much better after you do the job than before. By then it's too late. :)

I'm not sure what to recommend, but even just making a sample square foot with something like 2-4 layers of cloth will teach you a bunch. If you use epoxy you can do a sample on top of board styrofoam insulation and learn something etc.

Anyone have ideas for simple projects for practice?

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 1:55 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
Tim you need to get some practice.


Yeah, I think my earlier attempts on the Lalo parts (joining the hood halves) almost resulted in Jack's retirement......

I think the reason I used metal on the trunk is 'cause I am totally, uh, scared of the glass thing? Dunno. If I was smart / talented I'd have used glass to make one big glass "trunk" like the MK1 has?

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 2:57 pm 
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Well, I'm not exactly a fiberglass expert. As a matter of fact, I had to modify every body panel on my locost. I did it just like you did back on page 22. Same thing, right down to getting glass fibers and resin on myself and everything nearby. I did put down a healthy layer of newspaper before starting which helped plus using wide masking tape on stuff that really didn't need resin all over.

The mockup that looks like a car is made from '36 Chevy fiberglass fenders. The rear fender in the picture did get cut up and reglassed to make the shape more like I need, then sprayed flat white. The rest of the car is made from white hardboard from Home Depot, white posterboard and white duct tape. The whole idea was to see if I liked my idea when I saw it full size, which I do. So next came the body buck, which is for forming sheet metal. I was always impressed by the craftsmen that could make a car body out of flat sheets of steel or aluminum. I'm not an expert with sheet metal either so I'm going to learn it.

As far as joining your own pieces, if it doesn't come out right take a saw to it then the sander to put it back to where you started. I think I redid one fender on my locost 4 times. Nobody needs to know how many times it took you to get it right.

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 4:05 pm 
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How about this? Pick up a couple of cheap fiberglass bucket seats at the local hot rod swap meet, and start modifying them. Cut one in half, and put it back together. Cut a wedge out of the sides next to the driver's hips and alter the angle of the seat back. Put a radiused slot in the bottom for a 'submarine' belt. Your imagination is limitless (you're building your own sports car, for cryin' out loud) so make use of it! Go get 'em, Tiger! :drive:

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PostPosted: June 24, 2015, 4:33 pm 
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If I was smart / talented I'd have used glass to make one big glass "trunk" like the MK1 has?


I think that's what Jack did. Metal is nice and clean anyway. Everything has it's advantages. I found every time I worked with fiberglass I got cleaner, so that's a good reason to practice a bit.

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PostPosted: July 9, 2015, 6:41 pm 
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Okay, still thinking I want to do 'glass for the rear deck lid. Would probably use the metal support bits, but the actual top surface would be 'glass. I've got a couple of supports (including a 1" square tube in the very rear for a bit more protection) that I'd wanna bury in the 'glass?

JD et al -- just make a foam core arrangement on this deck lid? Use the blue foam, bend to shape, and cover it w/ glass, then cover the underside, encasing the metal bits?

The metal just seems to either be very heavy (18 gauge, kinda seems like a 1950's Caddy trunk) or needs a lot of support over the span (you just know someone is gonna sit on it?).

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PostPosted: July 9, 2015, 10:07 pm 
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geek49203 wrote:
The metal just seems to either be very heavy (18 gauge, kinda seems like a 1950's Caddy trunk) or needs a lot of support over the span (you just know someone is gonna sit on it?).
Mine's 24 gauge (prepainted roofing steel) and nobody has sat on it yet.
geek49203 wrote:
JD et al -- just make a foam core arrangement on this deck lid? Use the blue foam, bend to shape, and cover it w/ glass, then cover the underside, encasing the metal bits?
Just remember that styrofoam is (big surprise) styrene soluble. Styrene is the stuff in polyester resins that makes it thin enough to penetrate the fibers in the fiberglass, so you need to use epoxy resin or it will dissolve into a sticky glop, much like the dip in Roger Rabbit. Also, use cloth rather than mat for your glass--two to four layers--and if you're careful/lucky all you'll need to do is fill in the pattern of the weave. You might not even need body putty; a couple/few passes of Featherfill (or similar catalyzed polyester primer) may be all you need. That, and lots of block sanding.

If I were doing mine again...nah, I'd do it the same way I did before. Milwaukee Jim used aluminum, which is fine too. This is an application where sheet metal is quickest and easiest and cheapest, and unless you make it Caddy-trunk-thick, probably lightest as well.

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PostPosted: July 9, 2015, 11:48 pm 
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Yo Tim!
I'd say you're kinda far down the road with the sheet metal to change over now... The piece you showed in the picture, your "decklid" and "rear end" bits for the car look pretty good from here.

Putting foam and fiberglass over the metal you've already shaped would just add weight -and thickness- to the panels. Remember the foam stays in place, so the panel comes out with a half-inch core and two outer layers that are about a 16th or more each. It adds up. If you'd started out planning it to be that way and made the supports under it the right size/shape to fit with the the thicker panels all would be good. As it is now, I don't think it'll look right/fit.

If you do wind up doing some 'glass somewhere, what Jack was telling you is true. Poly resin will melt the foam. If it's an elaborate bit of front-end aero and it melts into a pile of goo after you've just spent hours and hours carving and sanding it, it can be a real tragedy. (ask me how I know...)

So what's the problem with sheet metal for the deck??? Me no unnerstan...

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JDK

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PostPosted: July 10, 2015, 9:21 am 
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The metal bits... hmmm...

First, they were initially done at a time when I had about zero cash, and probably wasn't thinking things thru, perhaps fighting with the now-ex girlfriend, so they aren't built the way I'd really want 'em. The side bits will mostly be covered up but they're ugly, having been abused and used for prototype stuff. They're gonna be problematic if I use them -- metal around the pivot points is weak, horrible welds (I was running out of CO2), etc.

And, the deck lid is 18 ga. Hell, I'm a liberal arts / seminary grad, and what did I know? I had it sitting around. I got stoned and I missed it (a little Shel Silverstein humor there). I read about it on the Interwebs. It now feels like a 1950's Caddy hood, or so it seems when I try to work with the thing. Weight aside, it's been a challenge to shape, and yeah, I'm not happy with the fit and finish right now and not sure how I get to a good point with the tools I have. Is this why those master metal working guys on YouTube use 19- or 20-ga when building hot rod parts?

So, I am thinking about redoing most/all of it. It's not uncommon to do 2-3-4-? attempts when a noob does some locost task, right?

And if I redo the thing in metal, there are things I'd change/add. I have a virgin unmolested "new" 4x8 sheet of 20 ga steel, for instance, that might do a lot better. And instead of trying to weld 2 sheet metal pieces at a right angle, I'll use my new metal brake (or maybe buy a shrinker or a bead roller?) to make some tabs to weld. And use some heavier metal bits around the pivot point. And I'll continue the deck lid all the way to the shock towers this time. And I'll also integrate mounts for the hood latches (Corvette-style, gonna use 2 small latches, one on each side). And maybe fuel filler hole?

But for some reason, doing the pivoting moving bits - the sides and top of the trunk - with foam-core fiberglass seemed more doable yesterday. Make three pieces and bond 'em together -- one for each of the side bits, and then another one for the lid. Still thinking about it, but I gotta say your opinion - not to mention Jack's! - have made me reconsider. It wouldn't be the first time in this build I've thought about something, which seemed a great idea, only to abandon it after thinking some more.

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