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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: November 20, 2014, 11:33 pm 
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Posts: 37
Here are some shots of where the motor mounts and additional structure is planned on going. The red is the top layer of additional structure. The blue is bottom to top structure to prevent frame flex under high loads and suspension and a arm support.
Hope this helps all.
let me know of questions. I'm still reviewing all possibilities of changing the frame if I need to. Got lots of time off work coming up so I'm hoping for lots of garrage time.
sorry if an image or two are flipped...
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 17, 2014, 12:14 am 
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HI everybody!
Long time no post, life seems to be getting in the way all the time but i have made some pretty good progress over the last few weeks.
Some major things that have happened are:
frame weight (empty with no roll cage and still some final work in the boot) weighs 160lbs
suspension has been acquired (carrera 3173) with 7 in of travel. this will require me to use pushrod suspension and a 2 to one reducer and the total wheel travel i want is 3 in from full droop to compression.
i have tacked in the control arms for the rear. they are tacked in place and the upper rear control arm is unfinished to promote easy camber variation for testing. the blue tape roughly shows where the other arm of the control arm will go. the rear has great travel and the desired camber change over the range of wheel travel.
the motor and tranny have to be removed as one, but with the baby boxter 4 this really is not an issue.
the front control arms are mapped out (see photo with blue tape) and once i get more material will be welded up and tested.
the roll cage position and seat position and foot pedals are loosely defined as in the photos.

next major steps are really figuring out the radiator, rear boot area, mount the front A arms, and get a real seat, get a steering wheel system that works.

overall this thins is super fun/frustrating to build. two steps forward one step back. each new part that is built usually conflicts with another part that has to be modified. having some issues with locating where im going to put the pushrod rockers and large springs.

well its been fun, let me know your thoughts and opinions.

Cheers
John


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 20, 2014, 3:15 pm 
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Posts: 37
Hello again.
I completely forgot to ask a question in my last post. I was originally planning on running a brake booster(from stock car) and the original power steering system.

Brakes
The brake booster was because I do plan on doing lots of track days and was worried tons of track time would kill my feet. After running some test measurements I don't think physically I can fit in the booster. Which leads me to... Locost master builders what brake master cylinder should I get? As well as what is a good brake bias system to get too, I would like to be able to control the forward/rear braking power (if that's even possible).
Thanks any help on this would be helpful.

Steering
I plan to run the stock forester power steering for 3 reasons, 1 I have it, 2 with such a short wheelbase I was as much help as possible for all those fast adjustments at speed, and 3 the car is AWD so I figured extra help to force the front tires in a skid would be helpful. Any thoughts or comments? I have yet to mount it in and could change if if a great reason presented itself.

Suspension.
I could use some help here. My goal is only 3 inches of wheel travel and I have 2 options that I currently own. I only really want 3 inches of travel as this is a track car and the tracks I drive on are pretty smooth.
1st option is a complicated pushrod suspension with a 2 to 1 rocker arm connecting to 7in stroke carrera 3175 coilovers. Gives lots of shock travel to very little wheel travel, but the carrera 3175 shocks are only so adjustable.
2nd option is running some 2008 honda CBR1000RR fully adjustable coilovers. These would be direct mount and fit nicely and have a 3in stroke including a 0.5in bumpstop. These coilovers are very adjustable and cheep so if I break one eBay has them for 25bucks.
I like both options but I would like the locost builders opinions. My plan is to build the mount points to accommodate either option so when testing happens I can swap out to test what I like. I have two former nascar and f1 crew chiefs that are both going to help fine tune it at the track. As you can guess each has different opinions on which way to go.

Locost builders assemble and aid me in my struggles!

An affectionate name some friends gave my car: skitsofrantic hooker, because you don't know if she will stab you in the back and leave you in a ditch, or give you the ride of your life.

Cheers
John


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 20, 2014, 8:40 pm 
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Location: Sarasota
Brakes
I got this bias adjuster. Whicha also has wires for teh brake lights which is nice.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-2 ... oCFdfw_wcB
I made room for the brake booster and now the brakes are a little too strong especially at slow speeds. However without the booster the brakes a [PooPoo]. You can see I had to extend the clutch master and lower it below the brake booster but very glad I made it work.
Attachment:
Brakes.png


Steering
For the steering I got a 2:1 reducer (just above the booster) giving me about 1 1/4 turn lock to lock. You could also reduce yours with power steering it would work very well. I love the reduced steering input on mine but really need to get used to it.

Suspension
I got a set of Miata PSS9 coil-overs for $200 so I made them fit. I think inboard is a better option though. Mine were just too big.


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 21, 2014, 9:13 am 
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I suggest using the oem master, keeping the reservoir above the calipers. By mounting the master as high as possible, the hanging pedal ratio can be maximized and less frequent bleeding from air migrating to the calipers rather than the reservoir.

Another option on the booster is to use a bell crank and locate the booster and master transversely. Commercial trucks and RVs often have a transverse brake master and booster.

Use the steering system you have or at least leave room to install it later. Just run it back and forth and remove the fluid then loop the line with hose to keep it clean and allow air to flow to each side of the piston.

For the suspension options, they both sound good though I'd likely go with the non-pushrod option. I'd go with one or the other. Try flipping a coin?

The engine mount vertical support looks a bit weak to me but I realize you haven't added those struts yet.

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Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
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360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
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McSorley 442:122x46x14
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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 22, 2014, 11:50 pm 
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Wrightcomputing
Thanks fit that! I am planning on keeping the brake booster as you expressed my fears about not having one perfectly (poo poo). Honestly I am keeping the 3 turns to lock for my steering now, but leaving the option in the future for the steering reducer. My thinking is that with such a short wheelbase I really don't need a reducer. But that is after testing to figure out. Thanks for the help!

Miatav8
I like the idea of moving the brake master as currently there really is not a ton of room in front of the foot well. I do plan on using the booster, and I will keep it above the brake calipers. I honestly did not thinks that and it's a really helpful tip.
For steering, are you suggesting making it manual and non power? If so, is it really that simple to do? I have not really researched so forgive my ignorance, I was planning on just reusing the stock power steering system to keep it simple. Do you think I don't need it, even with the AWD?
Thanks for the suspension idea, I did flip a coin and it came up non pushrod, for now.
As for the motor mounts yes there are still 4 more pieces that needed to be added, but currently she sits just fine with no issues. Those are three 1in by 1in 14 gage tube with 1/4in reinforcements, but there is even more planned. I want that motor stable!

Thanks for the help guys, I hope to post some progress over the holidays. Hope to finish up the control arms and suspension points and mabye just maybe have a roller by 2015.


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 25, 2014, 9:25 am 
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Sorry for the delay. I've been going through hell with the Georgia Dept of Revenue because they won't allow the dmv to issue a plate for my police trike because "it is in the family of golf carts", ignoring a federal certification label stating it is a motorcycle. I'd honestly have no problem getting a tag in California, where they are so common that the DOR issued a memo to all DMV about what to do. Our DOR is fighting DMV, though DMV is under DOR so not much they can do.

I'd leave it power for now. I described one way to depower, but it requires modification of the high pressure hose so you'd need a new hose to repower. No need to reinvent the wheel; just use what you have.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 25, 2014, 5:23 pm 
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Miatav8
You said DMV and I knew problems would arise. Do you work for the local police or did you get a trike for fun? I think I know what you are talking about but ones reminded me of segways and could only do like 30mph. Am I thinking of the wrong trike? I hope all goes well with the dmv, I am dreading if I ever make this street legal.

I will keep the power steering for the time I have a few days before the power steering has to be finalized.
Thanks for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: December 25, 2014, 7:46 pm 
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A little info:
These are motorcycles with a fwd car drivetrain that meet all Federal Standards and are capable of around 70 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLUpHa4zFMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifc1vuR4YQY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7xthkf_nvM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCTm24EaY98

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: January 21, 2015, 12:08 pm 
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Miatav8
I want one! It looks like a reliant robbin but even more dangerous. I hope all is well with the dmv.

Everyone else:
Sorry for the lack of posting been kinda busy with work, family, house, broken daily driver car, etc. All the things that get in the way of good old fashioned car building. I have made some significant progress and also ran into more problems than I care to admit, mostly where to put things.

Progress:
See attached photos. I have converted the rack and pinion from powered to manual and am about to paint it and install it. Saved a few lbs and gained 1 to 2 hp, MORE POWER!
located, tacked and built the lower control arms to frame. Located where the upper control arms can go for optimal wheel movement. Made more brackets than needed (insert bad word showing fustration). And know the genear location and placement of the roll bar and rear of the car.

Issues/PITA:
In shortining the car I have run into a few issues. Mainly no room in the front of the footwell. No room for nicely mounted shocks, brake booster or clutch. I am working on a system of rockers to get the components where I need them. This AWD is quite difficult, but it shall be rewarding (or dangerous).

Overall quite fun even with all the issues. Really wishing I had more money for proper shop tools like a mill and lathe, would make such light work of all the little things that need to be created.

Any ideas for a car name
rally friend wants it called sideways as he thinks that's how it will end up after corner 1.


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: January 24, 2015, 7:59 am 
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Thanks. I've learned a lot about State Government in the process. There was obvious internal confusion at DMV. I just had to keep going up until someone could provide an answer. The good news is DOR Legal have confirmed they are motorcycles and not exempt from titling. Exempt vehicles are typically non road legal vehicles. It looks like we are only talking about titling paperwork at this point. I should know this week.

As for dangerous, the CG location is important. The reliant is like a seven with one wheel in the nose. This is more like an At-om with one wheel in the nose. The motorcycles that have been converted to have a rear axle have a more forward cg than this.
However, it is more dangerous than driving a car, as all motorcycles are.

When I was talking about widening the control arms, I didn't realize there was going to be a trailing arm under there.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: March 10, 2015, 11:10 pm 
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Posts: 37
HI ALL
I have been busy at work and at the project so i hope you can all forgive me for taking so long between posts.

So far I have been very productive on my end (at least i hope Im being productive)
Completed 99% of the control arms (minus the suspension mount points). The tires rotate the full suspension travel that I desire (a grand total of 2 to 3 WHOLE INCHES).
The suspension rack is tacked in place but is basically mounted. There is almost no camber change through the full range of motion and the bump steer is almost 0.
The rear area is tacked in place, this is where the roll bar, support bars, and gas tank and aux components. The roll bar will be in place this month, I have some friends coming over to bend the 1.75in OM 0.12in thickness.
I have a cool gauge for speed and tach and some other sensors like suspension travel, oil temp, coolant temp, etc. its called a GPX Pro 8.

I have attached some "cool" photos of the progress, and would love any help you all have to offer. I plan to mock up the seat, steering wheel, shock towers/mounts in the coming days. Any good ideas for paint for the frame, i was thinking powder coating but would prefer a paint that i can repair easily.

Please ask questions, otherwise i feel like im talking to myself!

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: May 24, 2015, 1:07 am 
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Hello again.

Hope you are all ready for tons of updates, lots has happened since the last post in March. please forgive me as i am still new to the forum thing and quite bad at posting updates.

1 New build Table. Its big, steel and more level than my garage. Its a bit hard to work with due to the height but it's better than than the wood POS i was using before. Makes welding a breeze.

2 Pedals. Have a willwood brake and clutch setup, with a bracket for the stock gas pedal. Works well and i have made it semi-adjustable for any short people who want to drive it.

3 Rear shocks. They are mounted and work. they are CBR1000RR shocks and they work quite well and give 3 inches of wheel travel before the bump stops.

4 Roll bar hoop. the roll bar has been bent and welded into place. currently fabricating the rear supports to keep it straight in a roll over.

5 Rear diff. Finally figured out a semi elegant method for a removable yet secure rear diff holder that lets me remove the diff between the roll bar supports and the gas tanks.

6 steering. Steering rack works great, ordered supplies to build the shaft and get to where i need it to be. unfortunately due to the height of the willood brakes (to make sure the reserves are above the brakes) the steering shaft is a bit high, but fine for me. got a quick disconnect and 12inch wheel on the way.

7 Inboard suspension. THe front components for the rocker arms and shock mounts and push rod have been fabricated. in the final stages of cleaning it up and borrowing tools to get the correct hole drilled for the bearings. the rocker arms are quite large so i can test them and see if i need to change the ratio and build smaller rocker arms. these are mach one and may be replaced with CNC arms later.

8 seat. still trying to decide to build or buy a seat. i need a skinny one due to size restraints and the ones online are too vertical, need a bit of a lay back to get the proper position. any suggestions for a up to 17in wide (outer dimension) seat? i plan to use a 5 or 6 point harness depending on seat.

9 Gauges. have a GPX PRO 8 for the speedo, tach and water temp as well as some other data gathering that will be added later. going to have additional gauges like turbo pressure and suspension travel as well.

Id love some comments or feedback. this is my first fully built car by myself and can use all the suggestions i can get. I was hoping to get engine start and running before the weather turns to sheet this year but that may be tight as i still have a bit to do.

Left to finish.
1 suspension testing
2 electrical
3 fuel tank (anyone got suggestions besides me building one?)
4 fuel lines (anyone got suggestions for lines and tools?)
5 brake lines (anyone got suggestions for lines and tools?)
6 seat
7 seat belts
8 muffler
9 body
10 rear roll bar supports
11 E-brake
12 Driveshaft
13 paint
14 putting it all together
15 not dying when i drive it

Hope you enjoyed the update from the AWD subaru build. Still trying to find a better name… deathtrap? Yes that sounds good for now.

Cheers
John


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: March 11, 2016, 12:37 am 
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Well its been a VERY long time since i posted. Time to make up for a long absence with a set of Massive updates. The car is actually very close to running and should be test running in the next 2 months once i final weld some items up and build a Jig.

let me know what (if any) photos you want to see.
Finished the suspension, im using 2008 CBR1000RR adjustable shocks. they have about 3 inches of travel at the wheel.
steering rack is in and has a quick disconnect.
Brakes, clutch and gas pedal is in and adjustable
Seat brackets all 1/2 inch steel or more mounted to frame with 6 3/8 bolts per seat
A-arms are all complete and adjusted to get the correct camber and toe-in
Brake lines routed
fuel tank located and mounted
fuel lines in and routed
blast plates/firewall installed in floor well and transmission tunnel
Muffler mounted and welded in place (still need to fiberglass wrap it)
E-Brake mounted and routed
transmission and diff swap to 5MT 2008 WRX.
Driveshaft built and installed
Rollcage and rollover structure build and installed
Wiring in work (potentially ready soon)
Radiator mounted
radiator tubing mounted
engine rebuild (valves done, cleaned, ported and polished)

attached are some photos, i have tons from the building process, im just really bad at doing the forum thing. ive got tons of photos so i plan to update a lot of old status


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 Post subject: Re: AWD subaru build
PostPosted: March 11, 2016, 5:38 pm 
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Your making great progress. Have you weighed the car at all. It does look like the rear end is going to get very light under heavy braking.

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