LocostUSA.com

Sorry it took a while to get back to you. My wife had to go to the hospital for a procedure. She is doing fine now.

The veneer is 48" long and 12" high.

Let me know if you are still interested.

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Thom

So as it is the norm, two steps forward, one step back. Don't know how, but the engine / trans are 1" lower than the centerline of the rear. Need to keep them as close to equal as possible, as I have used up 2.20* on the operating angle of the driveshaft by moving the engine / trans 1" to the passenger side to clear the tunnel for the trans linkage. Jacked the engine and trans up 1" and set the angle to within .5* of each other at 10.75" from the floor. I think part of it is I am using one of those plastic mockup blocks, and when I take a level reading from there, I'm off by 2.5* based on checking at the tailshaft / main body of the trans, and the tailshaft yoke. Upside is I have another 1" of pan clearance, downside is that I will have to do a "Shaker" style hood. Not a huge deal, but I was hoping to hide the whole thing under the bonnet.

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Dismantalus, Fabricatus, Assemblus.....
Certified Welder, Certified Welding Inspector, Full Time Car Freak...In New Jersey no less!

I have two things that might be of value to you. I had to do what you're doing. I have a downward angle, and a cross-chassis angle because my diff is 3/4" off center, and I needed to angle slightly to avoid possible collisions with my very narrow rear tunnel.

In the book "High-Performance Differentials, Axles and Drivelines" by Joseph Palazzolo, I found the concept of True Joint Angle (TJA).

TJA = Square Root (A squared + B squared ) where A & B are your two angles. He says TJA must be at least 0.5°, but not more than 3°. That gives you something to look at when setting yours up.

I have the same fiberglass nose you do. It looks like you've build your scuttle. Mine is fiberglass. Anyway to lift them up, I'm looking at putting a nice thick piece of aluminum flat bar under each to raise them to clear more of my engine. The idea would be to polish them, so it look like a trim piece. Maybe something like that would work for you?

By the way, I love that cool English wheel in the background. Did you make that?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

The angle is not additive for different planes. Diagonal offset is just more difficult to measure. I think the diagonal will always be less than max vert or horizontal (whichever is greater) but I've not "done the maths".
The axle locating design dictates a lot in any build.

You need at least a 1/2 inch bonnet clearance. I think I would add another top chassis rail from the dash forward and the seat back short section, then cut out the rear hoop and raise it the same amount to keep everything looking symmetrical. We are talking about adding one stick of 1.25x1.25. I can carry that with my pinkie (briefly). You could stitch it in, then cut and shut around each vertical one at a time if you want to shave a few pounds. No jigging required.

Na and nb miata have zero operating angle and the joints last a long time with no grease fittings.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

I agree with Lonnie. In fact, I mentioned this math on this very site 11 years ago. The operating angle is not "additive". The true operating angle is the square root of the sum of the squares. In many car applications, the angle when viewed from above is zero so only the angle viewed from the side is important. But this group is a bunch that think outside of the box. Here, it is not unheard of to offset the diff (most are) and not the engine, causing the additional angle to consider. Some even have intentionally angled the engine from the centerline of the car, which adds some other driveline complications I will not go into here. The diagonal will always be larger than the larger of the two. MV8, go ahead and do the math and you will see. Visually, think of 2 lines perpendicular where the vertical line represents the traditional driveshaft angle as viewed from the side. The horizontal line is the lateral offset angle viewed from the top. The "true" or "total" operating angle is the diagonal.

From what I read (I have no personal experience) some Miatas have a spots worn in the u-joints due to the rollers never moving as they would in a more traditional layout. With an operating angle they travel around a bit. That is why it is generally desired to have a minimum of ~ 1 deg operating angle.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

That's ok Chuck. This is not a race or an election but I've probably forgotten more than I can recall at any given moment. If we are keeping track, I said a 1/2 degree minimum for lubrication 15 years ago but have changed my mind since then and my experience with miata driveshafts is older still.

If the miata joints were greasable, then there would be no issue but it eventually breaks down and allows some minimal movement that increases the clearance. Even so, they last a long time. Back then, compact digital protractors were not common or affordable and the ppf makes it difficult to measure anyway.

Of course, if you are direct measuring lateral offset in order to do the math with straight edge and a manual (since a pendulum doesn't work) angle finder, then you could just rotate the rig around to find the greatest angle.

But yes, Chuck is correct about the actual, true operating angle being greater than the largest angle shown vertically or horizontally if both are greater than zero.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Thanks Lonnie, MiataV8, and Chuck for chiming in! Ok, so if I'm reading this correctly, then: If my diff and trans are set at zero (level), and I have a 1" height difference which gives me 1.7*, and a lateral offset between the trans and diff of 1/2", .85*, then my total operating angle would be the square root of (1.7x1.7) + (.85x.85), which would equal 1.9* Please let me know if that is correct.

If that is so, then I could drop that lump of Iron back down an inch and call it a day. On the other hand, leaving the engine where it is now drops that angle to .85*, does gain me some clearance below, and while I don't really want to raise the sides any more than they are (They are already 3/4" taller than a 442E because of the Corvette front subframe mounts for the control arms), I could just tilt the nose to bring the back up an inch or so, and maybe I'll do a small "Cowl Induction" on the hood. I may build the nosecone and hood in sections, weld it together and metal work it and make it a tilt nose.

Yes, Lonnie, I did build the English Wheel. Frame plans and the wheel / anvils came from Pro-Shaper in Charleton Mass., and the adjuster I built from scaled up plans from Desert Hybrids in Tucson, Az. I've got a nice bead roller, now I need to get some hand tools, and a nice set of shrinker / stretchers.

_________________
Dismantalus, Fabricatus, Assemblus.....
Certified Welder, Certified Welding Inspector, Full Time Car Freak...In New Jersey no less!

Correct!

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

There I fixed that for ya!

_________________
Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle

Thanks everyone for the edumacation on the driveline angles. Since it shows that I"m within spec regardless of where I'm at within my range, I'll just leave the engine / trans tacked where they are right now as the height won't affect anything else as I move forward. That can be a decision when I get to actually plumbing in the engine and final decisions on the hood.

_________________
Dismantalus, Fabricatus, Assemblus.....
Certified Welder, Certified Welding Inspector, Full Time Car Freak...In New Jersey no less!

@Dismantalus
There are many different ways to solve the hood problem. It won't hurt to put that off. I'm still running into novel ways builders solve that problem.

Here's one example from Western Australia I like:



Or this one from Long Island where it just became part of the landscape, so to speak. You'll have to scroll down this page to see the issue and solution.

I'm still thinking about mine and holding off until the last minute.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Or just go hoodless

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."
Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52

SeattleTom, I would, but this is New Jersey after all, and you WILL have a hood on your car....At least during inspection....

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Dismantalus, Fabricatus, Assemblus.....
Certified Welder, Certified Welding Inspector, Full Time Car Freak...In New Jersey no less!

Little steps. Got the Scuttle frame drilled and tapped, the frame drilled through, and then the frame bolted down. Done
Now, another call for opinions. I have a collapsible steering column from a fourth gen Firebird. Originally as installed there was a sheet metal stamping on the outside of the firewall that bolted to the firewall, and was welded all around the lower column with a VERY small tig weld. That is long since gone. I would assume that that sheet metal / weld were designed to collapse inward with the lower shaft into the upper shaft in an accident. I'm thinking I should make the new forward mount a slip fit, and maybe three or four 1/4" stiches to keep it in place, but break in an accident. Thoughts?

_________________
Dismantalus, Fabricatus, Assemblus.....
Certified Welder, Certified Welding Inspector, Full Time Car Freak...In New Jersey no less!

If the firewall was crushed, the upper column should hold and the column would collapse. I would rigidly mount the lower to the chassis and fully weld the upper as well as add two forward diagonals off the upper.

On earlier models, the column was expanded metal rolled into a tube to crush easily if the firewall moved back in an accident.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12