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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: February 20, 2018, 3:40 pm 
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Pumps show up regularly on eBay.

Whatever pressure section is in there is probably fine; they're normally identified by rotor or gear width; the manufacturer can tell you if you have some oddball for a 1600 Ford or something.

A single scavenge section plumbed to the pan will do. You may find pumps with up to five scavenge sections; at most you could use two, one for the sump and one for the head. You can buy a shorter shaft and bolts and remove any unwanted sections.

There are various toothed-belt systems out there, newer pumps often use the "high D" round-tooth form. You'll need a matching crank pulley, or change the pump pulley. Be aware not all tooth forms, belt widths, and lengths are easily available.

You can also drive the pump with a serpentine belt. The poly-V belts are an upgrade from the old V style, and some of the low-boost superchargers will run with a 5-groove belt.

If your goal is reduced clearance, you can just shorten the pan and weld in a few pieces to deflect oil to the pump inlet.

Cosworth and some motorcycles used a simple nipple and hose clamp setup on the suction side; nowadays AN fittings are cheap enough there's no reason not to use them. "Lubricants want to be free." The hoses are heavy and move with the engine; they need to be supported so they're not hanging off the fittings. I prefer steel fittings when I can get them, just from paranoia.

"AN hose" covers a lot of ground nowadays. Stay with Earl's, Russell, Goodridge, or Aeroquip, directly or from a reliable vendor. There's some cheap import stuff out where with questionable rubber liners. And it's not unknown for some of them to collapse on the suction side.

There are some dirt-cheap welded, polished aluminum dry sump tanks on eBay. Cheap enough I'd try one, myself.

Tall and skinny is better than short and fat for the oil tank. You can find plenty of plumbing information on the web nowadays.

It's entirely possible to build a system using the stock internal pump and a single external scavenge pump, but it usually involves bulkhead fittings, oil filter adapters, and much cursing. And you're not likely to find a single-scavenge-stage pump used anyway.

I don't know how the Alfa oil pump system works; on some engines the pump serves more than one purpose. You can sometimes just remove the gears or the outer lobe ring to keep it from pumping anything. You'll probably have to plug some of the oil passages too.


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PostPosted: February 20, 2018, 3:48 pm 
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I've been warned that attempting a shallow pan does not really work.
Oil "Submarines" on hard braking when it gets wound up in the crank.
Much loss of power and oil vapor ensues.
Racers gave up on the idea after some spectacular failures.

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PostPosted: February 20, 2018, 6:26 pm 
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I was told by someone with much more experience than I have, that the main reason for multiple scavenge pump to one pressure pump is because once your oil makes it back to the pan it can be highly aerated. So if your pumps are rated at, oh say, 5 gallons per minute, your pressure pump will be putting out 5 gallons of oil, and a single scavenge pump will be bringing back 3 gallons of oil all frothed up with 2 gallons of air. Using my example, with numbers pulled out of thin air, you would need at least two scavenge pumps to keep the oil tank filled. All of the cars that I've seen with dry-sump system (midgets & T/Qs mainly) had at least two scavenge pumps. You will also need to put some thought into the design of your oil tank so that it aids in de-aerating the oil before it is sent back to the engine.

Hope this helps!

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PostPosted: February 20, 2018, 6:53 pm 
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Found a new pan at ARE, about $550.00 :shock:
I will have more into the DS oil system by the time is is complete than the engine, trans, and Webers!

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PostPosted: March 20, 2018, 9:45 pm 
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Patience is occasionally rewarded. :shock:
I'm getting a complete dry-sump system and spares from a banged up Alfa race car at a good price.
Which of course means I am not getting the spare engine and transmission I was hoarding the money for. :BH:
Of course if I should happen upon a pile diamonds and gold in the next few weeks the same seller has more goodies, like a full race head, trick trans, etc.

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PostPosted: April 11, 2018, 3:07 am 
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Finished paying for my DS system complete with distributorless ignition system and mini-alternator.
Spent more than I should have but much less than new would have been.
Now need to find even more money, he has a tricked out trans and light flywheel I want.
Oh, and he offered to GIVE me the rest of the tube-frame race car the parts came from.
Too bad shipping cross country is so expensive, and more so when the car is not a driver. :roll:

Hope to have the DS installed on the engine by the end of the month.
That will be worth posting a pic!

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PostPosted: April 11, 2018, 12:17 pm 
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Where is it, Richard? Maybe some forum members can tag-team it cross-country for you!

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PostPosted: April 11, 2018, 1:17 pm 
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Location: No. Nevada
Upper New York State, Canada actually, but can be brought to New York fairly easily.
Been crashed so only has three rolling corners which makes it a bit awkward to move from trailer to trailer or truck to truck.
Tube frame needs some repair.
Also there are some molds for replacement fenders, nose, front spoiler.
Car was 1700 Lb. running, not bad for starting out as an Alfetta Coupe.
My thought is that it could be a killer "Shadow racer" type street car or an Autocross machine much less expensively than putting it back into racing form.
Originally powered by an Alfa 2000, I would put a stock Alfa V6 in it for plenty of cheap power.
Other engines/trans could be used but lose the Italian flavor, like putting Ketchup on Ice-Cream. :ack:

The engine, trans, dry-sump, steering column and many other parts have been sold off.
I can get details on what is left.
If a new home cannot be found for the car it's going to scrap.
That would be a shame, even thought it's not the sort of car I usually take on it has a lot of potential.
The Red Alfetta behind it is a stock version for comparison.

Before the crash,

[img]028.jpg[/img]


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PostPosted: April 26, 2018, 2:20 am 
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Location: No. Nevada
I've been bad, VERY bad!
For my B-Day (Like I need an excuse!) I bought a 4 x 44 IDF Webers setup for my '68 El Camino, 11-1, .040 over, Brownfield heads, "327", Muncie M20 and Jag IRS project. :chev:
Bet the engine will not starve for air NOW!
Italian made Webers, set looks virtually new.
May want to exchange the manifold if I can find a deal on an Inglese base.

The bad part is that I could have done LOT to the Alfa/Dio for what these cost. :roll:
But I have made a deal on a rebuilt Alfa trans with lightened gears and flywheel. :D
Now I have to put some time into replacing the funds I overspent. :BH:

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PostPosted: April 26, 2018, 8:13 pm 
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Back on the right track. :wink:
Ordered the oil filter block-off to plumb the dry-sump pressure line, and one of the drive belts today.
Then found the part number for the second belt for my next order to Summit.

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PostPosted: April 30, 2018, 12:40 am 
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Getting closer to getting the engine fit.
Bought a used dry-sump system a few weeks ago.
It included a modified front cover, but I do not want to have to tear my engine apart to install it.
The modified front cover eliminates the distributor/wet oil pump, has the original lower oil galley plugged, and the oil filter mount modified to take a 12N pressure line.
I've found a Moroso part that simply screws on to take the 12N pressure line in place of the oil filter.
Tonight I made a plug on my lathe to replace the distributor.
So all I have left to plug is the main oil galley at the bottom of the block.
I think I can plug it fairly easily with another fabricated plug, or carefully tap and plug as last resort.

With no distributor I will be using an Electromotive crank-fire ignition.

I think it's time to pull the cover and see what cams I have.
As I recall they are supposed to be some version of performance cams, maybe just Euro type.
At almost half the original vehicle weight I'm sure they will be sufficient since this is still mostly a street car. :twisted:

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PostPosted: April 30, 2018, 6:06 pm 
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RichardSIA wrote:
Brownfield heads


Good Lord! When did Brownfield go out of business? 1974? 1975?

Now you need some Jahns pistons and Gotha rocker arms...


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PostPosted: April 30, 2018, 6:15 pm 
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Brownfield never died, they became or were bought out by AFR.
Early AFR are identical to what I have.

If Jahns still made some light 327 .040" over forged 11-1 pistons I would buy them.

Rockers will be TRD if possible.

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PostPosted: May 1, 2018, 5:31 pm 
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[kicks at piles of unidentifiable trash in the Memory Store, blows at dust]

I vaguely remember hearing that, now that you mention it. [clickety] Looks like they were still in business (or AFR was still using the name) at least into the early '90s.

Looks like Jahns sold out to Ross, and Bill Miller owns what's left of ForgedTrue.

Too bad I got a Marine DI haircut this morning; the Voices are telling me to grow my hair out and tie-dye some T-shirts.


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PostPosted: May 2, 2018, 12:33 am 
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Richard, I bought a '71 911 with SBC conversion out of San Jose in the early 1990s. It has a 327 w Brownfield heads, and needs a can of octane boost per tankful of the 93 octane we have here. Thus, this engine sounds very similar to the 327 you are building. What a great engine it is! Lots of torque everywhere in the rpm range, and revs instantly (some of that must be due to the small dia. Porsche flywheel and clutch, but still). You will love your 327 and I commend you on your smart purchases.

Jack


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