LocostUSA.com

Hey all - been stalking this website for the better part of 2 years, figured now that I'm making progress I would start my own thread. I'm building this blind, as from everything I've read I'm not following the standard norms for putting this together. My 'home' site is an Atlanta based car forum, which you guys are more than welcome to check out, but I'm hoping the formatting remains the same so i can copy / paste the history of what's brought me up to the point where I am now. I'll reserve the first couple of posts to help the journal flow, but post updates on the back end as well, so you know when the updates arrive. Mods, I hope it's okay to link to other forums, I tried embedding the URL's, but it was giving me errors.

http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32587

http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?p=390623#post390623 - the original thread can be found here (history, background, etc.). Now that I'm actually building this, I decided to start a new thread so I can reserve a few slots, don't want to spread the journal out over multiple pages.

Journal Begins

Total money spent: $4,439.91
Total time spent (hrs): 52.75
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlqiT3iKdpMldFhCQ04tQ2VSaXNETFVNQWhZS0RrZHc

Well, we started up today, got all of the metal cut and all of the angles sketched out so we can go back and hit it with the chop saw, hopefully next weekend. We ordered way too much metal, enough so that we probably have enough to construct a third frame...woops.

Frame Design:


Metal as delivered:


Metal cut for one car. I was really surprised at how little metal there is holding this thing together. Keep in mind, too, that these frames can be build using only 3/4" tubing...I don't see how it would stay together.


Mine and Nicad's piled for storage till we can get back and angle the pieces:


1/14/12
Got the angles cut on the upper and lower main rails, grinded them down so they're ready for welding. Aligned everything up, looking more and more like a car (ish)




1/19/12
More cutting...more angling...more grinding...

1/24/12
Finished cutting / grinding. Mocked up the compound angles to make the front nose cone, measurements and everything are right on. Hard to tell, but the two 2x4's are propping up the bottom, the other portion is on the floor. This is offset top to bottom to allow a little more clearance on the bottom of the car to fit the steering rack and components


2/5/12
Welded the bottom of the frame together. Came out pretty well, unfortunately my build table wasn't completely flat and i had to transfer to the floor. Fortunately, I noticed in time and once I welded the cross supports in, there's only about a half an inch of flex in the back corner. When you flip the frame over, it's perfectly flat on the corners and there's a small bit of flex on one joint in the middle. I'm storing the remaining metal on a pallet on top of the frame on the flat floor to help (hopefully) flatten it out. Keep in mind everything's only tacked, so I can still go back and grind them off and fix them later if needed.

2/12/12
Welded the top half of the frame assembly together. Overlapped the two together - BAM!! [PooPoo]'s within 1/8" all the way around. I mean, I know it should be as I measured, remeasured, remeasured, one tack, remeasured, etc. so the dimensions were as close to perfect as possible, but with the oversized tubing, the dimensions don't exactly match the plans. However, everything lines up perfectly, so I'll put the final welds on the top and bottom half this week and then weld the two pieces together. Any questions, bring em on.











You can see how short the actual frame is

_________________
- Drew

Welcome to the forum and good luck. A few comments/thoughts:

-A level/strong MDF build table like you discussed is strongly recommended, its easier to keep things level and easier to work on;

-Im not sure what dimensions you decided to "keep" using the oversize tube and the +442E, but if you kept the outside the same as the plans you'll have that much less interior room and if you kept the interior dimensions items such as premanufactured scuttles/windshields will be to small. Not a huge issue, just something to be aware of;

-Very curious as to what you've spent $4,000+ on when all you've shown is a pile of tubes; and,

-Is that a female form I see in photo No. 13 assisting you ?

_________________
Trochu Motor League

2/15/12 - Did work, son
Got one of the guys in manufacturing to stay after a couple hours today and get the final welds put on the top and bottom halves, got them joined together. Came out amazing, less than 1/8" of flex throughout, spot on in offsets on the front end (hopefully get the front put together toward the end of the week). Anyway, enough of the boring [PooPoo] - PICTURES

Build Table


Leveling out the H beams (connect top and bottom frame halves)


After the H Beams are welded on, turned the piece upside down to measure how level our cuts are...pretty spot on










Finally, welded them together




This portion of the frame weighs in at 52lbs




2/17/12
Went back during lunch and got the front end tacked together, then mounted on the frame. these pieces were some of the hardest to cut, the compound cuts could only be made in two dimensions on our chop saw, so i had to draw it out and hand grind the third dimension. It took Nicad and I the better part of two hours to get the eight pieces (four per car) cut and angled correctly...looks like it was worth it. The front end is a little wider than the book plans, but I'm thinking that may be a positive trade off as it will allow more more side to side width for the large V8 and will also help widen the front track. No pictures of the process, I only had 30-45 minutes to get things together before manufacturing got back from lunch and snagged the welder back.





2/18/12 - FRAMES DONE
still has some more bracing to go, but the main portions of the frame are done. Tacked together the rear end this afternoon (bigest PITA this far). Weighed in at 72 lbs, actually a little less than what i was expecting.









2/23/12
Frame exoskeleton is completely finished and welded up. The only two pieces that aren't fully welded in are the two G rails, the rails that hold the motor up. I figure if I need to modify the width in these for oil pan clearance or better lineup with the motor mounts, I can easily break the tacks move them around. Frame's weight up until this point is 84 lbs.







continued





8/10/12
enter the mullet mobile, the first move i've made towards this project in almost 6 months. Fully running donor car, couldn't have asked for a better opportunity with one exception, which I'll elaborate on shortly. Interior is [PooPoo], don't know that I'll be able to recoup much cost parting that out, but he's got aftermarket wheels (with a little bit of tread left on the tires...for now) and aftermarket stereo, which I'll probably rip out and sell. Tranny shifts well, has new clutch. Other than wheels and tires, this thing is 100% stock with 110,062 miles on. Perfect.

The negative...engine has a tick. Not sure what's going on with it right now, as it exhibits symptoms of multiple things. I'll get it looked this next week, hopefully it's something as simple as lifter knock or a bad exhaust manifold gasket. Even if it's rod knock, the motor is still running strong, so hopefully it'll be an easy fix. Took it on a test drive, has solid power throughout the rev band. Just. a. tick.

I picked up the entire running car for less than the cost of the drivetrain package we've been looking for, so even if I break even by selling off the wheels and shell to fix the motor, I'm still happy with the purchase. And it let's me move on, as I'm at the point on the frame where I can't go any further without having the motor / tranny for mock. I'll probably get the motor looked at, drive the T-top mullet mobile while I tinker on the frame, then swap it all over.



8/15/12
crap, so i just looked up the dimensions, then measured the frame, then realized i'm screwed. The dimension from the front of the crank pulley to the back of the bell housing is just over 35". I have about 38" to play with, but I think I'm going to need the space up front, and I need to mount the entire assembly where the shifter is at the point I want it.

[url="http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2432&start=15"]I checked out Phil's LS1 build thread (great source for info, btw)[/url] to see how he got around this, he ended up hacking one of the main support bars and redoing it. He didn't note this via text, so I never even picked up on it, but when looking at his pictures to see how he did it I discovered this one (hope this works):



check out the support brace where the tranny bell housing sits...[Fornicate]. Phil actually raises this bar, but I think i'm just going to relocate it. This is why they say don't start the frame w/out the drive train...

_________________
- Drew

Building it at my work, we have a full manufacturing facility. I started looking into MDF build tables, but I'm already finished with the majority of the frame and our metal build table at work is 10' x 10' (and makes it much easier for welding)



Good question...lol. It's caused a few dimensions to be off, but it wasn't anything too drastic. You'll see the only issue i've run into thus far is noted, but I have yet to put any additional bracing on the frame until i get the motor in / mounted and start getting the suspension components installed.



donor vehicle. I've linked my google docs spreadsheet showing some research items, budgeting, time, money spent, etc. I opened this up to so anybody with the link in the OP can view, as a lot of people were very secretive about this during my research and it frustrated me to no end. I wanted to document / journal this build project for two reasons: 1) I want to be able to look back and read all of this, especially years and years down the road when the build process isn't as fresh on my mind. 2) I wanted others who are interested in undertaking this task to get a complete idea of what's involved. Granted, the sample size is small, but in all of my research I never came across a detailed behind the scenes log that gave me a FULL idea of what I was getting into. That, and I'm pretty OCD...



Willing to take help from whoever is willing to lend the hand, hahah

_________________
- Drew

It's all there in the original post.

What size tube did you decide on gtg631h?

the majority is 1.25" OD 18GA square tubing. The non-load bearing pieces will be 1" OD, and some of the minor bracing is in 0.75" OD. I was originally going to try and incorporate a full roll cage for track use, but I don't want to detract from the roadster appeal, so I think i'm going to try and come up with a cosmetically appealing hoop (i'm not a fan of how the rearends look, so I want to try and get a little custom with it).

Sorry for reiterating some pretty basic knowledge to this site, my other forum is car based and nobody had even heard of a Lotus 7 replica when I first started looking into it.

My time frame is pretty slow (3 year project), as this is one of a few hobbies and I'm building slow enough as to not have drastic effects on my bank account. In all honesty, the donor was an impulse buy or I wouldn't have it by now, but the deal was too good to pass up. Saw the ad at 10am, had the car in my driveway at 10pm that night. If I can get the motor / drivetrain in by the end of the year, i'll use 2013 to tackle fuel, cooling, suspension, brakes and steering, then 2014 to tackle electrical, emissions, legals, etc.

...so goes the plan...life keeps having a knack of getting in the way, though.

_________________
- Drew

8/29/12
Started working on the Camaro. Don't have a bucket so I couldn't drain the radiator, but that's the last of the front accessories to remove, then drop the driveshaft. I was really shocked to discover that half of the bolts under the hood are metric :nuts:



9/10/12
Removed coolant, AC and fuel system. Removed intake manifold. Not much longer till she's pulled and we have half the garage back again



9/11/12
Removed engine harness and a few other components. The only thing holding the motor in is the transmission, the exhaust, the motor mounts and the power steering system. I'm torn on how I want to try and get this thing out, if I should pull the block and drop the tranny, drop the drive shaft and pull the motor / tranny together, or some other method I don't know about / thought about yet. The guy I bought it from had this piece you can see bolted onto the middle of the block, it's to help lift it out so you have a single lift point and can rock the motor around...pretty nifty, subaru definitely needs something like this, I hated always lifting the motor via intercooler and alternator brackets. It's getting closer, though...

_________________
- Drew

Drew,

You have an interesting build going! I'm also planning for an LS motor, but in a Car9 chassis. I ran across a helpful book that you might also find useful. GM LS-Series Engines The Complete Swap Manual by Joseph Potak. The book covers all the mix and match LS parts and accessories and what to salvage from donors, etc. It's pretty current, too. You may already know all this stuff, but I found it to be a really good reference. Got my copy via Amazon.

Good luck on your build. I'll be following your progress.

_________________
Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."
Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52

I'm surprised, almost every bolt on my 1986 Mustang was metric. USA as been metric for quite some time now, the only people that don't know it are the citizens...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

car is not completely metric, though I would prefer it. A lot of my experience is in Japanese cars...much, much easier to work on. This back and forth makes it really annoying to work on, though, especially since i'm doing this in my garage without access to a lift.

not much to update as far as progress, but with the holiday season coming up, I hope to utilize some time off for Thanksgiving and Christmas to get a little work done. I'm pretty close to getting the motor out, did some research and came across some stuff that might be helpful for anybody else using this platform. My hope is to have the motor out and get the motor mounts measured up and welded to the frame by the end of the year. May not have the time, but we'll see where it takes us

Found this gem. I've done most of it, but I broke down the youtube link with step by step instructions so i can make sure i've completed everything. Still not sure how i'm going to get the car high enough, but that's future drew's problem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp1lkz3VtS8

Driver's side:
Remove Brake Booster
Remove Master Cylinder
Remove shock tower bolts
remove intermediate steering linkage bolt
remove two front brake lines (from square metal thing on top)

Passenger Side:
Something with harness
Loosen strut tower bolts
Upper AC compressor bolts

Underside:
Brakeline heat shield from drivers side
Clips holding brakelines to frame
Disconnect constant power line from back of alternator
Remove front sway bar
Remove AC compressor
Remove starter
Remove all sensors and ground straps
Remove hydraulic throwout bearing hose
Remove exhaust y-pipe
Drop drive shaft
Remove top bolt from torque arm bracket (long black brace running parallel to drive shaft)
Disconnect wheel speed sensor off spindle

Dropping Motor:
Remove 6 bolts on front cradle
Remove 4 bolts on transmission crossmember
Position dolly where front cradle is towards front of dolly for weight distribution
Don't drop the car...

Summarized another tutorial, copied from the forums onto a word document, includes pictures - https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1qiT3 ... lM4ZzctSUk

_________________
- Drew

Been a while, but I finally got a bit of time to get the motor out of the donor, sold off the donor shell and got the frame and motor together. I had to remove one of the bracing pieces, I'll see if I need to relocate the entire brace or if I can elevate and bridge it like Phil did.

Next up is locating the position for the mount points on the motor and transmission. The stock T-56 mounting bolts are within an inch of the B2 beam on the chassis, and it fits pretty comfortable in relation to the location of the shifter, which is my primary concern right now. I wish the other V8 journals documented this a little better, as everything I'm doing from this point forward is new to me and there is very little to no documentation on where to go from here. Any help / suggestions on location and mounting tips would be greatly appreciated.

2/15/13
Dropped the motor into the frame. Had to cut out the bar I knew would cause clearance issues. I need to figure out where the engine needs to be mounted. The transmission mounting bolts are sitting about a half inch from the main support beam, so I may try and make sure it lines up close to that so I can just weld the mount directly to it. Time to do research.

Sorry for the crappy quality cell phone picks


Removed brace

_________________
- Drew

4/3/13
Brought the car back to the office to work on it in the shop. Got everything lined back up and started working on the motor / transmission mounts. Just finished making the motor mounts with the exception of the vertical support stud.



The piece on the left is the adapter plate I made to mount up under the stock motor mounts

_________________
- Drew

I'm trying to put together the front suspension and as someone who's never dabbled in the suspension geometry, it's daunting to say the least. I've contacted Weaver and I should have my rear end setup in the next week or two, so once i get that framed in I can started the dreaded front suspension. My overall rear track width is 61.5" (per the interwebs)

My fronts are going to be interesting. I haven't worked out the exact numbers yet, (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustabl ... =91034323#) but I'm looking to use these as my front upper adjustable arms. I'm not sure which length I need yet, but I can easily figure that out once I narrow down the spindles I'm going to use, which brings me to the part I have questions on.

I plan on using something (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sa ... 82206.html) like these 2" drop spindles based on the Mustang II front end. From there, I'm looking at (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-1 ... 41977.html)this big break kit.

I think my brake kit is WAY to much, but I need something that looks good enough for show quality and this complete kit simplifies the process. If I get this kit, are there any peripherals anybody can see that the kit doesn't include? I didn't know if i needed to get a (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Pinto-Mus ... ,2336.html) spindle nut / washer kit like this, or if the kit has these pieces included.

If I don't get this kit (I'd much prefer to spend about half that...), does anybody have a kit they'd recommend that is dummy proof for people like me?

I also have no idea what to do for the ball joints. I found (http://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/910-34304.pdf)this helpful PDF that breaks everything down, but I'm still not sure on the individual parts / pieces - if anybody has messed with these, any links / info would be helpful.

Finally, i plan on using (http://www.kineticvehicles.com/ControlArms.html)these for the lower control arms. They're only $100 each, and they come fully assembled to my specs ($75 if I want to size them / weld them together myself....worth the $50 for both sides to have that done right).

Outside of brackets that will be welded to the frame and hardware to hold the (4) mounting points on the upper / lower a-arms to the brackets, I need to make sure I have all pieces required (except for the coilovers) to make this suspension setup work. I also need a steering rack, but I have no idea how to select one of those. (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLA-FR1503/) I'm looking at something like this, but any input here would also be appreciated.

_________________
- Drew

There are show quality ifs systems based on the mustang II/pinto with all the pickup points but they are very expensive and it won't look exactly the same.

There are oem ifs subframes with all the pickup points but they are not show quality.

Use standard, mustang II/pinto parts including the bolt-on ball joints.

The custom parts are the control arms to set front track similar to the rear track, tie rod lengths to work with control arm lengths, coilover, and possibly the rack depending on the width required between inner tie rod pivots.

I suggest you build the rear first, then you can use the rear to set up the front as required with the same track and camber gain.

If you do not know how to mig weld, have your welder teach you how. There are lots of small, less critical jobs where it will be useful.

Hi Drew-
You almost described the front suspension I used in the Slotus. I bought the 9 inch versions of that same Speedway upper control arm. In my case, the cross bar/mounting br*cket thing was not used. Your mileage might vary...

I also used 2-inch drop Mustang II spindle/hubs. I used a lower control arm from Speedway (their brand, not the more $$$ Heidt's version) for a street rod, designed to match Mustang II geometry. I cut off the original bushing mounts and converted them to heims. Here they are: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Mustang-II-Tubular-Lower-Arms-for-Coil-overs-No-Strut-Rod,38993.html

For brakes, I went with a circle track set up which used a Granada rotor (10 inch) that would mount on the Pinto spindle and calipers sourced (copied, actually) from a GM mid-sized car. It's a fairly typical set up used by circle track racers. It's not anywhere near as sexy lookin' as those Wilwoods nor is it as light. However, there are lots of pads available, the parts are cheap if you need replacments and they are damn near bullet proof. I didn't buy this kit, too pricey, but these are the same kind of parts I got from various vendors: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hybrid-Ro ... 24405.html

For ball joints, the pieces I used are set up to use the same ball joint top and bottom, a threaded Moog, p/n K772. Again, off-the-shelf part, cheap, readily available. (That's a recurrent theme around here, Bro...)

Any-hoo, hope that helps your decision making. Read up on suspension geometry and design. Think about what you're going to do with the car, and draw/calculate things out before you buy stuff. Like MV8 said, go ahead and finish the rear and it will help with a lot of decisions.

Good Luck!

JDK

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom